So I got pulled over.....

[Electrician Mike]

I stated in my first post on this that if asked, I would gladly comply with the officers request.
I also stated that the instructor in my CC class is the one who taught/and is teaching the other way.
I have also stated that I am legitimatly trying to find out the correct answer, of which I now know there is not one. The nice lady at the OSBI told me to contact my legislators and ask them about the gray area.
Funny thing is she said nothing about officer discretion. She stated that it should be the department or organizations discretion. By someone completing the SDA course and going thru the OSBI background checks, we are trusted by the state, and should be trusted by an officer. Once again, this is the OSBI legal departments words, not mine.

 

[BadgeBunny]

I stated in my first post on this that if asked, I would gladly comply with the officers request.
I also stated that the instructor in my CC class is the one who taught/and is teaching the other way.
I have also stated that I am legitimatly trying to find out the correct answer, of which I now know there is not one. The nice lady at the OSBI told me to contact my legislators and ask them about the gray area.
Funny thing is she said nothing about officer discretion. She stated that it should be the department or organizations discretion. By someone completing the SDA course and going thru the OSBI background checks, we are trusted by the state, and should be trusted by an officer. Once again, this is the OSBI legal departments words, not mine.

Well, the kind lady behind the curtain at OSBI is not out on the road day in and day out. BTW, if an officer is exercising his discretion I can assure you that he is following department policy, that is outlined ad nauseum in the department's policies and procedures.

Departments don't have discretion. Departments have policy. Officers have discretion.

Again, do a search ... and while you are at it you might do some more research (not here .. on the Oklahoma Supreme Court Network) and take into account legislative intent. Go ahead and shepardize that statute and then research the pertinent case law also. Statutes in and of themselves do not stand alone.

Like a bunch of us have told you already ... this has been hashed out more times than a whore gets screwed on dollar day ...

 

[Electrician Mike]

I understand this and I am not at all disagreeing with what you are saying. The biggest problem I am now seeing here is that this is not how it is being taught in the classes. They dont send you a note when you pick up your license stating "we know you went through the class, but now you should go to okshooters to see how things really are"

 

[BadgeBunny]

I understand this and I am not at all disagreeing with what you are saying. The biggest problem I am now seeing here is that this is not how it is being taught in the classes. They dont send you a note when you pick up your license stating "we know you went through the class, but now you should go to okshooters to see how things really are"

I like OSA but let me give you a little advice ...

NOTHING on here should be construed as legal advice. Just like nothing in your SDA class should be construed as legal advice. If you want a legal opinion go find a reputable lawyer.

I used to teach SDA classes ... some are better taught than others apparently. In no way, shape or form did any of the instructors I worked with EVER even insinuate that you should use that portion of the SDA statute to not comply with an officer's request or tell an officer that they are not allowed to secure any weapon at an active scene.

Apparently,though, others believe that is an okay thing to do. Unfortunately, that particular instructor is not the one who's butt is gonna be in a sling should an officer interpret someone's lack of compliance as something more than a minor annoyance.

 

[Electrician Mike]

Thanks for the advice, and thanks for being civil with your answers.

I will not go into more details about what was taught in class out in public, but I did exactly as we were instructed and went home, ordered my SDA book and highlighted this section and have kept it with me since in case it is ever needed. If you are interested in knowing I will PM it to you. After what I know now, I am shocked.

 

[FireproofD3:25]

Well, I heard from someone who took a better class than I did, some very smart sounding advice. If a Cop ask to see your Gun, then show him where it is and let him get it himself, even if its in a holster on your person. The reason for this is, looking at a dash cam from a squad car, it looks bad you producing a gun on a officer and the officer can do anything, even shoot you. The Cams have no sound so all they see is you reaching for a gun and producing it on the officer. Sounds very smart to me, let the open your jacket, lift your shirt, or whatever you have to do, and let the officer actually receive the weapon.

Can any LEOs advice on this? Not that I think an officer is going to shoot me, but if a person is not comfortable drawing there firearm in the presence of an LEO would in be rude or construed as non-compliant if you preferred him/her to disarm you instead?

 

[Glocktogo]

Thanks for the advice, and thanks for being civil with your answers.

I will not go into more details about what was taught in class out in public, but I did exactly as we were instructed and went home, ordered my SDA book and highlighted this section and have kept it with me since in case it is ever needed. If you are interested in knowing I will PM it to you. After what I know now, I am shocked.

If you followed the advice of the SDA instructor and said advice got you in a jam with a LEO where you were arrested, you would likely have legal recourse against the SDA instructor. You could present that to the DA if charges were filed. However, it wouldn't get you out of a citation or arrest, which is what you want to avoid in the first place. Sadly, we live in a complicated world and there's tons of misinformation out there. That's why it's a good idea to search for the answers from multiple sources. When I find conflicting information, I always err on the side of caution.

 

[BadgeBunny]

Well, I heard from someone who took a better class than I did, some very smart sounding advice. If a Cop ask to see your Gun, then show him where it is and let him get it himself, even if its in a holster on your person. The reason for this is, looking at a dash cam from a squad car, it looks bad you producing a gun on a officer and the officer can do anything, even shoot you. The Cams have no sound so all they see is you reaching for a gun and producing it on the officer. Sounds very smart to me, let the open your jacket, lift your shirt, or whatever you have to do, and let the officer actually receive the weapon.

Just follow the officer's directions ... It really isn't that hard. If you are that worried about some officer going postal and setting you up just so he can shoot you maybe you should stay home.

What kind of instructors have you guys been going to anyway??

See below:

From an instructor's perspective (me) I teach this portion of the Oklahoma SDA this way.

1. Per the Statutes, you must inform that you're carrying when the officer when he FIRST makes official contact.
2. Tell the officer "I have a carry permit and I am carrying."
3. Follow the officer's instructions.
4. The official CLEET class curriculum does not include the statute mentioning the "no inspection". Yes, the statute does exist. Mentioning it tends to confuse the class because THE OFFICER HAS THE RIGHT TO DISARM and may do so, depending upon the circumstances.
5. Make the officer's life easy; he (or she) only wants to go home safely at the end of their shift.
6. If you think a particular officer has treated you unprofessionally, wait until some later time, then contact the officer's superiors.

Thanks Buzzdraw ... I quoted you because I don't think it can be said better ...

This is one instance where Electrician Mike is right. Us old timers might grow weary of re-hashing this stuff but there is a brand spanking new group of SDA holders coming out of classes around the state every day. And apparently, there are some really, really off the wall instructors out there. Makes me afraid for their students as well as our LEO out there.

 

[Fatboy Joe]

Mike,

I the grey area is always the one that gets you. I was also taught in my class that a LEO cannot confiscate your weapon unless a crime has been committed. However, securing you weapon is similiar to placing people in handcuffs without arresting them. If an officer pulls 4 guys out of the car he is going to handcuff them to make sure they all don't jump him...etc...If there is no crime he releases them on their way.

About the inspection part, I don't believe securing a weapon is inspection of a weapon. Inspection to me would be running it through a crime database, if OK has one, but running its serial number.

 

[Buzzgun]

I have been stopped a few times while armed and I have never had an officer take my handgun. When I teach the SDA class, I follow the state mandated curriculum, including the part where it says "follow the officer's instructions".

Having said that, I don't like the idea of an officer removing a legally carried firearm during a traffic stop, I believe it is both unnecessary and unsafe. First, if I was inclined to shoot the officer, I certainly would not inform him I had a gun before doing so. Second, I often carry a pistol that has a magazine safety, and, the slide WILL NOT retract enough to unload the chamber unless the magazine is in place. In order to unload the chamber on that handgun, you must remove the magazine, empty the magazine, re-insert the empty magazine into the pistol and then retract the slide to empty the chamber.

I'm sure many cops are gun savvy enough to figure this process out, but a lot of them aren't. I'd hate for the cop to shoot him or herself or me while trying to unload a pistol that I was legally carrying.

But I'm not going to tell one they can't take my pistol, can't see that turning out real well for me!