Study: Tesla car battery production releases as much CO2 as 8 years of driving on gas

[Dave70968]

How so? Really? I'm not saying his numbers are wrong, but that it's an incomplete comparison.

You don't see the big black hole in their data? So what if Tesla battery production creates a bunch of CO2? If it's production creates less CO2 than the production of an internal combustion engine and all of its unique components, the comparison in the op is not just useless, it's misleading.

But that's cool. Go with it.

The proper comparison for a battery would be a gas tank.

A meaningful comparison would be the vehicle as a whole: battery to gas tank, internal combustion engine to multiple electric motors (including the environmentally-scandalous rare-earth magnets required to make them), the steel body panels to the lightweight plastics (and the oil to produce them), etc. Who cares about just a battery? Without anything else, it's just something on which I can stub my toe. Give me total (environmental) cost of ownership, from the time all of the raw materials are in the ground until the end of its service life (200k miles, perhaps?), including all necessary fuel/energy inputs throughout, all repairs, etc. From there, adjust it for passenger-miles (based on typical occupancy, not maximum), cargo ton-miles (ditto), whatever is the vehicle's major purpose. Anything else is cherry-picked propaganda.

 

[doctorjj]

They should be trashed as the biggest private subsidy in history to do nothing to contribute to anything but a cool electric car on my dime.

Thanks for paying your dime for my car. Too bad you couldn't pay the other $134,999.90.

 

[dennishoddy]

Thanks for paying your dime for my car. Too bad you couldn't pay the other $134,999.90.

HAHA! I'd love to take a ride in it to a shooting match somewhere.
I know how the acceleration is on those bad boys in the reports I've read.
Amazing.

 

[dennishoddy]

How so? Really? I'm not saying his numbers are wrong, but that it's an incomplete comparison.

How do you justify this opinion, without facts, and numbers?

 

[SMS]

How so? The OP report calls out specific emission totals. Anybody that disagrees would have to produce some opposing numbers.

The proper comparison for a battery would be a gas tank.

A meaningful comparison would be the vehicle as a whole: battery to gas tank, internal combustion engine to multiple electric motors (including the environmentally-scandalous rare-earth magnets required to make them), the steel body panels to the lightweight plastics (and the oil to produce them), etc. Who cares about just a battery? Without anything else, it's just something on which I can stub my toe. Give me total (environmental) cost of ownership, from the time all of the raw materials are in the ground until the end of its service life (200k miles, perhaps?), including all necessary fuel/energy inputs throughout, all repairs, etc. From there, adjust it for passenger-miles (based on typical occupancy, not maximum), cargo ton-miles (ditto), whatever is the vehicle's major purpose. Anything else is cherry-picked propaganda.

Agreed. Battery and electric motor compared to a gas tank, internal combustion engine, battery and unique components. Whole car would be even more revealing. That was my point from the beginning.

 

[SMS]

How do you justify this opinion, without facts, and numbers?

Right. That was my point. The numbers in the article are, as Dave said, cherry picked propaganda.

I don't have to produce numbers in order to point out that they are providing an incomplete and misleading comparison in the OP article.

It's not a complicated concept to grasp unless one is desperately clinging to a narrative.

 

[JD8]

They should be trashed as the biggest private subsidy in history to do nothing to contribute to anything but a cool electric car on my dime.

Yet I've never seen one *****, moan or complaint about the oil industry subsidies here on OSA. Oh but that's different?

https://electrek.co/2016/11/25/tesla-subsidies-big-three-oil-industry/

But let's not let facts get in the way.

 

[SMS]

If a liberal or someone we don't like gets a subsidy, it's a subsidy and theft from the taxpayers.

If we like them or they are Republican and get a subsidy, we pretend it didn't happen or obfuscate.

It's the knee-jerk, Fox News way!

I just think Tesla is a snake oil salesman who can't won't actually mass produce what he's promoting. Maybe the numbers are there and we just don't see it in Oklahoma though.

The Tesla wall and solar roof look interesting.

 

[doctorjj]

If a liberal or someone we don't like gets a subsidy, it's a subsidy and theft from the taxpayers.

If we like them or they are Republican and get a subsidy, we pretend it didn't happen or obfuscate.

It's the knee-jerk, Fox News way!

I just think Tesla is a snake oil salesman who can't won't actually mass produce what he's promoting. Maybe the numbers are there and we just don't see it in Oklahoma though.

The Tesla wall and solar roof look interesting.

If the Model 3 doesn't get mass produced at the prices they have quoted, then I will agree with you. The Model S has been produced at levels that have met demand. It's just not everyone who will pay that kind of money for a car.

BTW, I'm against all subsidies, even the ones I benefit from.

 

[JD8]

I just think Tesla is a snake oil salesman who can't won't actually mass produce what he's promoting. Maybe the numbers are there and we just don't see it in Oklahoma though.

The Tesla wall and solar roof look interesting.

Here's the thing about Tesla, no matter what the outcome, the industries he's involved, are all moving forward instead of remaining stagnant due to fear of competition. Personally, I don't see the snakeoil part but that's just me.