TDSA training (dry firing at another person)

[cmhbob]

Did this in my Ohio CCW class years ago.

All ammo and mags were in the staging area. We moved to a large circle about 50 feet away. You cleared your weapon, and had the people on each side of you verify by sight and touch. Instructor came around, verified your weapon was clear, and stood about 10 feet in front of you.

Yeah, it was a COMPLETELY different feeling staring down my sites at a living, breathing person. I didn't like the idea at first, even for training. Still not sure I like it. I had to force myself to do it. But the experience was good to have.

And without other comment, I'll mention that my CCW instructor had an ND in class about 2 years ago, injuring a student. He also had an ND when he was a cop about 15 years prior to my class.

 

[Shadowrider]

When I went through AP1 they made it crystal clear what was going to happen and that if anyone didn't want to participate it was completely understandable. They explained this point very well and there was nobody that had any questions about it. Obviously this was all done before the drill. There was a guy in our class that had been through it once before where he didn't participate that time. This time he did along with everybody else.

While it is kind of, looking for the right term here.... Unnerving, I'll go with that, the weight of this training is just something you can't get anywhere else that I'm aware of.

 

[Big_McLargehuge]

I don't care how super secret squirrel delta seel leet the trainer is, I would never do this. I don't need to put someone in potential danger to understand the weight of responsibility of putting my sights on someone. This is just derptastic showboating.

 

[aviator41]

I don't think I'm ready to violate the "Don't point your gun at anything you don't want to destroy" rule.

I've been told that a 100% shooter will only shoot about 70% under duress. I can certainly see why this would be unnerving or disturbing.

 

[Sam Shoun]

I've participated in a drill that looks similar to this (not with TDSA), and I can identify absolutely nothing of value in it. If someone knows the full context of this drill, I'd sure be curious to hear it. Particularly what end this drill accomplishes that can't be better accomplished in other ways. If the argument in favor is stress inoculation, then I'd sure like to know how this is thought to be superior to good quality force-on-force. Has anyone else done both and still values getting dry-fired at?

As far as criticizing other people's work, it's prudent to hesitate; but I think it's the obligation of thinking people to hold others to a high standard of rationality. Maybe I'm missing something, but I see no rational support for dry firing at people.

 

[SMS]

Nope. This is how "training accidents" are born.

There are blue guns/simunition platforms available that will meet the same objective with zero chance of a live round being introduced.

 

[Blackout]

Nope. This is how "training accidents" are born.

There are blue guns/simunition platforms available that will meet the same objective with zero chance of a live round being introduced.

My thought exactly, the absolute 100% safety of my students and staff will always win over any kind of high risk training, no matter the risk/reward outcome. Then again, I'm not extreme and safety is my career.

 

[Shoot Summ]

I've been through that training with TDSA, I can tell you that the precautions taken are more than extreme to insure there are no loaded weapons during that drill. Mags are unloaded and left at the area where mag loading takes place. No mags are allowed in the drill area, weapons are checked by 2 instructors to insure they are not loaded, and that the student has no mags on them.

At no time in the training I did was a student put on the muzzle side of any weapon.

The drill is a gun/no gun drill, I personally found it very valuable. It was quite unsettling to point a gun at a live person, but I think it is an experience that was helpful to understand how it feels.

The great thing about Marshal and TDSA is that you chose the level of participation, AND if you don't like the class Marshal will give you your money back. I can say without question everyone I have referred to them, has been more than satisfied, and would/have trained with them again. I even sent my wife to train with them, without question some of the best $$'s I've ever spent.

 

[Big_McLargehuge]

People get shot by unloaded guns all the time.

 

[KOPBET]

I've been through that training with TDSA, I can tell you that the precautions taken are more than extreme to insure there are no loaded weapons during that drill. Mags are unloaded and left at the area where mag loading takes place. No mags are allowed in the drill area, weapons are checked by 2 instructors to insure they are not loaded, and that the student has no mags on them.

At no time in the training I did was a student put on the muzzle side of any weapon.

The drill is a gun/no gun drill, I personally found it very valuable. It was quite unsettling to point a gun at a live person, but I think it is an experience that was helpful to understand how it feels.

The great thing about Marshal and TDSA is that you chose the level of participation, AND if you don't like the class Marshal will give you your money back. I can say without question everyone I have referred to them, has been more than satisfied, and would/have trained with them again. I even sent my wife to train with them, without question some of the best $$'s I've ever spent.

^^ This

I've been through this class three times over the years. At no time did I feel safety was not job #1 with Marshall Luton. The drill is optional and if you don't want to do it then don't. If you feel you must leave then get your money back and get the hell out, but don't disparage or dictate to me and others what we can choose to safely experience. I can say from my own experience that pointing a firearm at someone is not necessarily easy to do, and for those that truly need that experience it is eye-opening how difficult it can be for some.

BTW - the photo on Facebook looks staged, and to me they don't appear to be actually directly pointing at each other, regardless.