The end of the AK-47

[OK Corgi Rancher]

holy crap an AR with one of those cmmg .22lr drop in bolts is unbelievable amounts of fun tho.

I have one. Actually, mine is a complete CMMG .22LR upper that fits on any AR lower. It's freakin' awesome. I love it.

 

[Seadog]

i appreciate your point of view. 200 dollar AKs?

i spend half my life thinking i was born in the wrong generation.

then again, i'd probably take it for granted and be 2x as mad to see this price gouging in effect.

$200 dollar AKs for days. And that was a Romanian in1999. Early 90s the Chinese SKS was less than $100 and Chinese AK about $200. I remember in 2005 you could get a brand new Yugo SKS for $200. Then varying grades going down in price.

I like AKs but the price is stupid. No way they should be more than AR. Even Ruger mini 14s are stupid high priced right now.

If I remember right in the mid 90s a colt AR15 was close to a grand. Not sure how many other manufacturers there were but colt was considered the pinnacle.

 

[joegrizzy]

$200 dollar AKs for days. And that was a Romanian in1999. Early 90s the Chinese SKS was less than $100 and Chinese AK about $200. I remember in 2005 you could get a brand new Yugo SKS for $200. Then varying grades going down in price.

I like AKs but the price is stupid. No way they should be more than AR. Even Ruger mini 14s are stupid high priced right now.

If I remember right in the mid 90s a colt AR15 was close to a grand. Not sure how many other manufacturers there were but colt was considered the pinnacle.

yeah i got into ak's early because even "entry" level ar's that i consider to be worse than a cheapo poverty pony / aero / psa of today were going for $800-$1000. you could buy two or three saigas in just about any caliber for that price. or like.....12-15 mosins.

ak's SHOULD be more expensive now because psa basically destroyed the ar market. sure you can still spend a lot on a "quality" build but like....is there *really* any point?

imo it's like the "cheap" ak argument. i didn't buy ar's when the cheapest ones were $1k. but at $400? absolutely.

 

[Seadog]

9mm ak > 9mm ar
.22lr ar > .22lr ak
5.56 ar > 5.56 ak
5.45 ak > 5.45 ar (they do exist....)
7.62 ak > 7.62 ar
i fully expect to see a .300 blk chambered US AK at some point. someone will do it. that would be cool i think.
uh i've shot way more calibers in an AR platform than AK (which....makes sense) and the ak is preferable for me on most of them.

holy crap an AR with one of those cmmg .22lr drop in bolts is unbelievable amounts of fun tho. and i'm not a huge fan of 5.56 ak's, i think that's a copout. too bad i shot as much 7n6 as i did, heck when it was my second cheapest gun to shoot next to .22 i was going thru cans of that stuff lol. glad i kept a bunch but still. dang.

if you want a 5.56 ak just get a galil or something.

556 Copout???????? Whaaaat man? You have to think logistics. Good luck with the 545. Stacked or not it’s not getting replenished any time soon. Democrats to thank for that. 556 is plentiful with similar ballistic trajectory’s.

I have a Galil. Good shooting rifle. Traded a WASR AK for a SAR3 AK in 556. Another good shooting rifle. Don’t have to worry about Democrat Russian ammo bans.

 

[joegrizzy]

556 Copout???????? Whaaaat man? You have to think logistics. Good luck with the 545. Stacked or not it’s not getting replenished any time soon. Democrats to thank for that. 556 is plentiful with similar ballistic trajectory’s.

I have a Galil. Good shooting rifle. Traded a WASR AK for a SAR3 AK in 556. Another good shooting rifle. Don’t have to worry about Democrat Russian ammo bans.

well like you said, the mags will essentially become unobtainium either thru reduction, destruction, or priced out. and honestly 7.62x39 isn't going to be priced higher or harder to find than 5.56 at any point.

people forget "russian" ammo bans will affect all calibers imported, it's not like it's just 7.62x39. and psa has an ammo factory for an extremely popular line of guns they just spent a ton of money pumping out. if no one else does, even they will keep it available here. they've proven they can do that with making ar's, i'd trust them to make cheap ammo.

 

[Seadog]

well like you said, the mags will essentially become unobtainium either thru reduction, destruction, or priced out. and honestly 7.62x39 isn't going to be priced higher or harder to find than 5.56 at any point.

people forget "russian" ammo bans will affect all calibers imported, it's not like it's just 7.62x39. and psa has an ammo factory for an extremely popular line of guns they just spent a ton of money pumping out. if no one else does, even they will keep it available here. they've proven they can do that with making ar's, i'd trust them to make cheap ammo.

What some people have not noticed is that the ammo PSA is starting to sell is not cheep like the foreign imports of Russia. Not sure it would be profitable for them else wise. It looks like they will be selling it at the inflated prices. Those prices are not that attractive but still cheeper than 556. And the 545 hasn’t happened yet.

Sooner or later I imagine PSA will ramp up for 556 mags like they did for the 762. Haven’t seen it yet. I had heard them talking about making some. If they are metal reinforced like the others they will be good. I think they should make them 35 runners like Gailis. They are definitely a little slow coming up with some of these projects

 

[joegrizzy]

yeah it'll be interesting to see if they can pump out enough to tank the market like they did with ar parts.

 

[Frederick]

yeah it'll be interesting to see if they can pump out enough to tank the market like they did with ar parts.

what exactly was the effect of PSA anyway? It seems like they're a pretty big deal in the AR market and i've been sleeping under a rock since i got my Colt AR...

 

[joegrizzy]

what exactly was the effect of PSA anyway? It seems like they're a pretty big deal in the AR market and i've been sleeping under a rock since i got my Colt AR...

basically the owner of the company started off just stockpiling ar mags. that was like the whole online business, and he hit a few things at just the right time to get big enough to make lots of money.

since he was just a dude, making lots of money was enough. after that he literally declared basically his mission was to devote most of the company's resources to manufacturing ar parts for entry level consumers that were mil spec and plentiful. he has many quotes about his personal mission to put an ar in as many american hands as possible, that's the easiest way to prevent laws being infringed is simply MAKE AND SELL LOTS OF GUNS.

and don't get me wrong; i'm not shilling them. along the way they promised to make cheap clones of basically every gun, and some of them they have and some of them they haven't.

but most of the parts and guns that people say suck aren't *REALLY* made by them just like most manufacturers. they use green mountian and FN barrels, i can't remember who makes their "EPT" ar trigger but holy crap for like $30-$40 when you can find them they are absolutely one of the best ar triggers on the market. with a bit of research you can find the same trigger sold from other manufacturers and it's always more expensive. it's literally the same one; i've compared them with calipers and the finger test.

so essentially, companies like DPMS, Stagg Arms, heck even ruger and s&w there for a while were making "cheap" entry level ar's that were selling for $800. while the first PSA's weren't likely of that quality and were selling for around the same, it didn't take long for the sheer glut of their manufacturing to have a massive effect on the entire AR market. they basically took it over and became the de facto standard. people say what they will, but i think literally *everyone* i know who owns guns has at least *one* anderson/aero/psa AR and they all work flawlessly.

i'm not saying it's a colt or as good as a gucci ar that's carefully and expensively parted out, but there's no doubt just by sheer number of how many exist, how many have been fired, and how many *haven't* exploded that they do in fact make a quality product for absolutely bonkers cheap. you can assemble a psa ar for ~$400, even today. like in a gorillion different configurations too, they make them in all styles to suit all tastes.

and after doing that for the AR market; they've gone full into the american ak market. they basically make the de facto american ak now unless you go K-USA. i haven't seen numbers, but i'm sure PSA is both making and selling WAY more ak's than K-USA. i haven't shot a K-USA 103, but i do have both a kp9 and a psa akv. i must say; i definitely prefer the kp9 and it's hard to quantify why.

the akv is clearly made for an american market; which is cool. it has features like a bolt hold open (not just a last round bolt hold, a real bolt hold, and a real bolt release) that make it far more user friendly than a "real" ak. so it's clear that they can and will satisfy the markets of "clone correct" and "give me more features", which is something that basically every other manufacturers just takes a niche approach on.

PSA has shown they are willing to make a "budget" option AND a higher tier model, but PERSONALLY i still buy their cheap stuff for basically all the reasons already stated in this thread. like you can pay $1k for one of their AK-103's, or you can get a blem gf3 for like $600. that's a no brainer for me, AND it's forcing companies like riley defense (never held or shot one) and century's new line to be better and cheaper. the BFT ak that century is putting out actually looks like a really great rifle.

 

[Frederick]

basically the owner of the company started off just stockpiling ar mags. that was like the whole online business, and he hit a few things at just the right time to get big enough to make lots of money.

since he was just a dude, making lots of money was enough. after that he literally declared basically his mission was to devote most of the company's resources to manufacturing ar parts for entry level consumers that were mil spec and plentiful. he has many quotes about his personal mission to put an ar in as many american hands as possible, that's the easiest way to prevent laws being infringed is simply MAKE AND SELL LOTS OF GUNS.

and don't get me wrong; i'm not shilling them. along the way they promised to make cheap clones of basically every gun, and some of them they have and some of them they haven't.

but most of the parts and guns that people say suck aren't *REALLY* made by them just like most manufacturers. they use green mountian and FN barrels, i can't remember who makes their "EPT" ar trigger but holy crap for like $30-$40 when you can find them they are absolutely one of the best ar triggers on the market. with a bit of research you can find the same trigger sold from other manufacturers and it's always more expensive. it's literally the same one; i've compared them with calipers and the finger test.

so essentially, companies like DPMS, Stagg Arms, heck even ruger and s&w there for a while were making "cheap" entry level ar's that were selling for $800. while the first PSA's weren't likely of that quality and were selling for around the same, it didn't take long for the sheer glut of their manufacturing to have a massive effect on the entire AR market. they basically took it over and became the de facto standard. people say what they will, but i think literally *everyone* i know who owns guns has at least *one* anderson/aero/psa AR and they all work flawlessly.

i'm not saying it's a colt or as good as a gucci ar that's carefully and expensively parted out, but there's no doubt just by sheer number of how many exist, how many have been fired, and how many *haven't* exploded that they do in fact make a quality product for absolutely bonkers cheap. you can assemble a psa ar for ~$400, even today. like in a gorillion different configurations too, they make them in all styles to suit all tastes.

and after doing that for the AR market; they've gone full into the american ak market. they basically make the de facto american ak now unless you go K-USA. i haven't seen numbers, but i'm sure PSA is both making and selling WAY more ak's than K-USA. i haven't shot a K-USA 103, but i do have both a kp9 and a psa akv. i must say; i definitely prefer the kp9 and it's hard to quantify why.

the akv is clearly made for an american market; which is cool. it has features like a bolt hold open (not just a last round bolt hold, a real bolt hold, and a real bolt release) that make it far more user friendly than a "real" ak. so it's clear that they can and will satisfy the markets of "clone correct" and "give me more features", which is something that basically every other manufacturers just takes a niche approach on.

PSA has shown they are willing to make a "budget" option AND a higher tier model, but PERSONALLY i still buy their cheap stuff for basically all the reasons already stated in this thread. like you can pay $1k for one of their AK-103's, or you can get a blem gf3 for like $600. that's a no brainer for me, AND it's forcing companies like riley defense (never held or shot one) and century's new line to be better and cheaper. the BFT ak that century is putting out actually looks like a really great rifle.

thanks for the explanation. PSA is basically everything that is great about capitalism sounds like haha