The Shotty Showdown! Mossberg 500/590 vs Remington 870. Which one and why?

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Which do you prefer?

  • Mossberg 500/590

  • Remington 870


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dennishoddy

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Not to take away from all of the above mentioned reasons, but a big one is that it's easier to get back in the fight. If you run across a hard primer, or any other "click, no bang" scenario, it's much faster to get that shell out of the chamber, re-chamber, and get back on target with a pump, and I don't think anyone would try to dispute that.

Now having said that... I currently have one of our R&D Bored&Ported 930s sitting beside, but it features overbored gas ports, reduced weight firing pin spring, increased power hammer spring and a very long list of modifications aimed directly at reliability, not the least of which being a fully polished chamber which, in my opinion, is a MUST for any 12ga.

Take Care,
Mike
I'd like to discuss this, and have it continue as a discussion and not as a pissing contest which it is currently nowhere close. :D
I have some points and past history to bring up for my side of the pump vs auto.
Most of it is training. I've posted before that I've hunted with a guy in the past that used a Rem 870 wingmaster that only had one arm and he could do a great job of racking the slide. He had a method where after the first shot,(shouldered) he would basically drop the gun from his shoulder and with an up and down motion get a new shell into the chamber, finally re-shouldering the gun to fire again. He pretty much had it down to a art as he had never been with two arms since birth. Was he fast? No. And there were failures? Yes, but darned few as he had thousands of rounds under his belt shooting like this.
I currently own or have owned three pump guns. A Mossy 600AT(to be corrected, it was stolen years ago and the model number may be wrong) Police only issue with an 18" cylinder choke barrel, and a receiver that was threaded and would accept a scope mount. 3" chambers.
Every time I shot a 3" round through it, the forearm would fall off. WTF? The threads were perfect on both the gun and the forearm showing no signs of being stripped and tightened up snugly after falling off. I know threads, and machining. Single point threading is something I'm really good at with three lathes at home to play with, two being conventional metal lathes.
The threads had to be out of factory spec is the only answer.
Second is a Mod 12 Win from 1928 that I've restored to new condition with a rust blue and new stocks. This thing runs like a clock. Zero failures ever.
I've only shot trap or 5 stand with it as it has a fixed full choke.
Finally a Rem Wingmaster from the 70's. Great gun, no failures. Mod fixed choke
Why a semi auto for me?
I haven't perfected the one arm reloading of chambering a pump gun if one arm is disabled and a guy that spent a lifetime doing it hasn't either.
Limp wristing a semi auto can certainly result in a FTE, but in my personal training, I don't limp wrist one, but bring it to the shoulder or the hip, the thigh, the calf, where ever one needs to do that. If I do shoot it one handed or limp wristed, a full extension of the arm with the elbow locked or mostly locked will cycle the gun.
I've reloaded many thousands of shells on everything from a $25 Lee loader to my current RCBS Grand loader and have never experienced a hard primer or a fail to fire because of primer issues. Even on many thousands of rifle or pistol rounds. I shoot competition. Those things are just so reliable these days that it's almost unheard of.
If perchance that ever happens, the slide on a semi can be racked on a door frame, the side of the leg, (which will hurt like hell) or another piece of furniture or at worst case, on the carpet with the gun turned at a 90 degree angle, sliding it on the floor to cycle the action. Lots of options.
Ok, I'm done for now.
The mods you are talking about for reliability in the 930 are similar to the same that we use to make our competition rifles more reliable.
Lighten the trigger springs, lighten the hammer, etc.
I'm interested in why you polish the chamber? Would not a long day of shooting clays or trap negate the polish or does it keep the carbon caused by back splash washed off?
 

druryj

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Mossy for me too. It's the location of the safety on the Remmy that I don't care for as much. But other than that, I'm fine with either one. I'd probably choose one over the other based on price if I was going to buy a new pump shotgun. If the Remmy saved me anything significant, then I'd be fine with it. But if they were even or even close in price, I'd go Mossberg.
 

dennishoddy

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Mossy for me too. It's the location of the safety on the Remmy that I don't care for as much. But other than that, I'm fine with either one. I'd probably choose one over the other based on price if I was going to buy a new pump shotgun. If the Remmy saved me anything significant, then I'd be fine with it. But if they were even or even close in price, I'd go Mossberg.
The safety of any gun should be between your ears.....
That being said, we don't have kids at home and when the grandkids are here, the doors are locked to the gun locations.
During competitions, the safeties are not even in consideration for a safe gun. An empty chamber is the only option visually observed by a range safety officer with the action required to be closed and the gun dry fired at the berm to render it cleared by the operator, and then the range is determined to be cleared never safe.
 
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APH Tactical

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Edited for easier reading....

Dennishoddy:
I'd like to discuss this... and not as a pissing contest.

Mike:
Sounds great Dennis, wouldn't have it any other way.




dennishoddy:
never experienced a hard primer or a fail to fire because of primer issues.

Mike:
I was using the "hard primer" as an example of any FTF/FTE scenario in which the gun must be manually cycled. Be it a hard primer/light strike, light powder charge, hammer fails to reset, or a failure in the gas system, guns fail and on an offensive/defensive gun, that failure can be bad news. But as far as our "fixes" for a hard primer are concerned, If rather the primer be stuck 10% harder than it should be than 10% lighter. There may not be another hard primer left in the world but if there is, and it finds its way into my gun, I don't want to know about it.




dennishoddy:
If perchance that ever happens, the slide on a semi can be racked on a door frame, the side of the leg, (which will hurt like hell) or another piece of furniture or at worst case, on the carpet with the gun turned at a 90 degree angle, sliding it on the floor to cycle the action. Lots of options.
Not sure if you caught the last bit in my post, but I also run a Semi 12 for defensive use.

Mike:
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't attempting to argue the pump over the semi, far from it. We'll actually be dropping our 930 before or pump models. I was just stating that in the event of a failure, it's faster to get a pump back in the fight than a semi. I'm not a racer and unfortunately, my products are not geared towards that crowd. We don't run 2.5lb triggers , but the movement on our triggers has been substantially reduced, enabling faster follow-ups and minimalizing the access points of debris the the action.



dennishoddy:
I'm interested in why you polish the chamber? Would not a long day of shooting clays or trap negate the polish or does it keep the carbon caused by back splash washed off?

Mike:
First and foremost on this, which is what most users will experience, yes, it is much easier to keep a fully honed chamber/cone/barrel clean than unhoned, and yes, as you mentioned, this surface finish also promotes "self cleaning". The latter two even promote slightly higher muzzle velocity/energy. But as far as reliability is concerned, I have on numerous occasions come across a shell that had to be rodded out of the gun. Some of those shells were so stuck in there, that even when the bolt was forced rearward, the extractor cut straight through the base of the shell. As the brass or steel expands in the chamber it molds itself in and around the imperfections in the steel. Once the chamber is fully honed, there is less "real estate" for the shell station make purchase on, and the slight increase in chamber I.D. works hands in hand with our Cryogenicaly treated barrels to help minimalize the effects of the chamber warping and shrinking as its temperature increases, causing FTF.

The way we see it, why wait until your gun has a problem to find a solution? We find factory shortcomings and mitigate them before they have a chance to make your bad day worse.

God Bless,
Mike
 
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magna19

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The safety of any gun should be between your ears.....
That being said, we don't have kids at home and when the grandkids are here, the doors are locked to the gun locations.
During competitions, the safeties are not even in consideration for a safe gun. An empty chamber is the only option visually observed by a range safety officer with the action required to be closed and the gun dry fired at the berm to render it cleared by the operator, and then the range is determined to be cleared never safe.
Your comment sounds like you don't use the safety after you've visually cleared the weapon with the range officer. That's a bad habit if your not considering the safety on the gun during a competition or home.
 

dennishoddy

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Your comment sounds like you don't use the safety after you've visually cleared the weapon with the range officer. That's a bad habit if your not considering the safety on the gun during a competition or home.

It’s a controlled environment at a match. One can certainly engage the safety if desired, but it’s not required in most cases.
 

Catt57

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Having a Mossberg 500 myself and ready access to a Remmy 870 I have used both. I prefer the Mossberg's lack of a loading gate. That darn Remmy gate has bit my fingers more times than I can count. And heaven forbid you try loading it with gloves on....

That being said. You can't beat either for the price/reliability combo they offer.
 

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