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<blockquote data-quote="HMFIC" data-source="post: 1632605" data-attributes="member: 7539"><p>I don't agree. I'll attempt to persuade you:</p><p></p><p></p><p>The complete text from Ron Paul's "Imagine" speech which the video was based on is at the bottom in quotes. When you read it without the video marketing and inflection, you can actually pick out the insanity a little better.</p><p></p><p></p><p>He refers to American troops as "occupiers" who he believes have no reason to be there and are not wanted. I don't view it like this at all and I don't think most Americans do either.</p><p></p><p>He falsely states that American troops kill and terrorize innocent people with "little or no repercussions or consequences". Wow... pretty bold statement and fully untrue.</p><p></p><p>He pretends that our normal course of action is to "ransack entire neighborhoods" at will and with no cause. Ask a soldier if this is true... perhaps even one who just had a buddy killed by an IED. Go ahead... I dare ya.</p><p></p><p>He plays the same old tune that WE somehow have caused people in the world to hate us. That is assuming the world (and especially our enemy) does hate us at all or any more than they hate anyone else.</p><p></p><p>He characterizes the CIA report outlining Bin Laden's rationalle for attacking us as "meddling". The fact is that just because Bin Laden's vision of harming us in the same way he saw towers and buildings destroyed in the 1982 Israeli siege of Beirut and blamed our support of Israel over the years as reason for revenge, doesn't mean that the CIA thinks it's rational, justified or representative of "meddling". It's no different than a report from a psychiatrist stating the fact that someone is crazy.</p><p></p><p>He makes a statement that we only deal with other nations through "threats and violence" rather than "friendship, honest trade and diplomacy". As if we are the schoolyard bully stealing lunch money from the world rather than the generous and protective nation that we have proven ourselves to be many times over. </p><p></p><p>You don't need my personal experience from the Gulf War, go ask a WWI or WWII Frenchman. Go ask a Chinaman from the 1930s or 40s. Ask any Israli from any time. Ask an East German who is no longer imprisoned by a wall that we pressed to have "torn down". Ask a Kuwaiti, Ask an Iraqi. Ask an Afghani. NOT the Taliban or the leftovers from Saddam's forces who seek to gain power again and rule with everyone under their thumb. Even still, ask OUR OWN OKLAHOMA TROOPS who are currently in these places. Ask them if their mission is fruitful and their cause just. Ask the countless men, women and children who have been saved from starvation, lack of clean water, disease, etc... through our humanitarian efforts across the world. Have we also make mistakes, sure... have we disenfranchised people sometimes, sure. Opinions from a single perspective abound, but if you can step back and take a look at the whole, we are not deserving of Ron Paul's rant about how bad we've been.</p><p></p><p>Like I said... if Ron Paul wants to have a debate on the merits of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or even the larger discussion about foreign policy in general, there is plenty of room to do so without him being sensational, dishonest, and incriminating of our troops.</p><p></p><p>I'd love to see all of our troops home, but it's not because I believe "we've done more bad than good". On the contrary, I'm just tired of spending PILES of our money and spilling our blood on countries that can't seem to get their own act together and likely never will. There may be good reasons that can be debated for us to stay there, but it's difficult to even get to that point when people like Paul continue to attempt to control the language of the debate by playing to people's emotions with bald faced lies and manipulative speeches.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="HMFIC, post: 1632605, member: 7539"] I don't agree. I'll attempt to persuade you: The complete text from Ron Paul's "Imagine" speech which the video was based on is at the bottom in quotes. When you read it without the video marketing and inflection, you can actually pick out the insanity a little better. He refers to American troops as "occupiers" who he believes have no reason to be there and are not wanted. I don't view it like this at all and I don't think most Americans do either. He falsely states that American troops kill and terrorize innocent people with "little or no repercussions or consequences". Wow... pretty bold statement and fully untrue. He pretends that our normal course of action is to "ransack entire neighborhoods" at will and with no cause. Ask a soldier if this is true... perhaps even one who just had a buddy killed by an IED. Go ahead... I dare ya. He plays the same old tune that WE somehow have caused people in the world to hate us. That is assuming the world (and especially our enemy) does hate us at all or any more than they hate anyone else. He characterizes the CIA report outlining Bin Laden's rationalle for attacking us as "meddling". The fact is that just because Bin Laden's vision of harming us in the same way he saw towers and buildings destroyed in the 1982 Israeli siege of Beirut and blamed our support of Israel over the years as reason for revenge, doesn't mean that the CIA thinks it's rational, justified or representative of "meddling". It's no different than a report from a psychiatrist stating the fact that someone is crazy. He makes a statement that we only deal with other nations through "threats and violence" rather than "friendship, honest trade and diplomacy". As if we are the schoolyard bully stealing lunch money from the world rather than the generous and protective nation that we have proven ourselves to be many times over. You don't need my personal experience from the Gulf War, go ask a WWI or WWII Frenchman. Go ask a Chinaman from the 1930s or 40s. Ask any Israli from any time. Ask an East German who is no longer imprisoned by a wall that we pressed to have "torn down". Ask a Kuwaiti, Ask an Iraqi. Ask an Afghani. NOT the Taliban or the leftovers from Saddam's forces who seek to gain power again and rule with everyone under their thumb. Even still, ask OUR OWN OKLAHOMA TROOPS who are currently in these places. Ask them if their mission is fruitful and their cause just. Ask the countless men, women and children who have been saved from starvation, lack of clean water, disease, etc... through our humanitarian efforts across the world. Have we also make mistakes, sure... have we disenfranchised people sometimes, sure. Opinions from a single perspective abound, but if you can step back and take a look at the whole, we are not deserving of Ron Paul's rant about how bad we've been. Like I said... if Ron Paul wants to have a debate on the merits of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or even the larger discussion about foreign policy in general, there is plenty of room to do so without him being sensational, dishonest, and incriminating of our troops. I'd love to see all of our troops home, but it's not because I believe "we've done more bad than good". On the contrary, I'm just tired of spending PILES of our money and spilling our blood on countries that can't seem to get their own act together and likely never will. There may be good reasons that can be debated for us to stay there, but it's difficult to even get to that point when people like Paul continue to attempt to control the language of the debate by playing to people's emotions with bald faced lies and manipulative speeches. [/QUOTE]
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