Trimming for 38 Special

[Sgt Dog]

Appreciate the responses and shared experience fellas.

Hadn’t thought to trim at all till I found the R-P cases all longer than published max-length.

First off I’ll load cast bullets. Interesting the crimp observations related to declining accuracy. Wonder if a tapered crimp would produce the same.

I taper crimp all my 38-50, 38-55, 40-65 and 45-70 Black Powder loads in Marlin Ballards but roll-crimp for Smokeless levergun loads.

I’m near-enough novice with handgun reloading to be all ears. So thanks!

 

[swampratt]

@Sgt Dog when I am curious on something I set out to satisfy my curiosity.

I have shot 170gr cast gas checked 357 magnum loads with 2400 powder to 1370 fps from my German 6" revolver.
I did not crimp and marked 1 chamber and left that bullet in there for 10 rounds of firing and then removed it and measured for setback and there was none.

If you do get set back a light crimp will probably help that out.

I think factory loaded ammo has a crimp because rough handling and the possibility of any set back may really bring pressures up and may make the ammo not chamber at all in some weapons.

(not go up the feed ramp smoothly)

I loaded some bullets into some cases and then drilled a hole into the bullet and ran a wire through the bullet so I can pull the bullet out of the case.

Chucked the case in a vise.
Had a small scale rigged up pulling on the wire to check Bullet pull in PSI.

I had a 357 loaded with a powder coated bullet that NO crimp and the bullet would not come out of the case.
Wire sliced through the bullet.
It was the kind of wire you hang a picture on the wall with the stranded stuff.

 

[Rustygun]

Returning to reloading for handguns after ten year hiatus with rifles - and experience was minimal even then, so keep that in mind.

I picked up 500 pieces of mixed brass. Couple hundred are R-P. These are close-to or over the max lenght whereas the rest of the once-fired are well under. So l looks like I’ll need to trim the R-P at least.

I’ve used stainless pins for tumbling/cleaning for a decade and primer pockets look fine I’ve used a Wilson and have case holders for everything, including 32-20. I don’t have caseholders for the 38/.357 so had questions on trimming cases.

Question one: Anyone using a Wilson Case trimmer for 38/.357?

Question two: do you recommend the Q-style or the recessed style?

Looking over the comments here I don’t think I am out on a limb by saying a very small number of people if any, trim handgun brass. I did not even know there were case trimmers available for handgun calibers. I would bet that if you measure your brass length before and after firing, length will not change. I think you are overthinking the reloading of handgun ammo.

 

[Dumpstick]

I'm going to be the contrarian here because, well, it's my nature.

If I'm shooting casual, just banging away at a series of dirt clods and whatnot, I don't bother trying to get precision out of my handgun rounds.

Which means; I don't load using precision methods.

Which means; I don't bother trimming.

I do, always, sort headstamps.

If I'm loading up max loads in any straight-walled cartridge for handguns, I start by taking my headstamp-sorted brass, and trimming it all to the same length. 38 Spl, 357 Mag, 41 and 44 Mag. All of them.

That way I get a consistent crimp.

Most folks don't trim straight wall brass. I do. You can make up your own mind.

 

[magna19]

@Sgt Dog when I am curious on something I set out to satisfy my curiosity.

I have shot 170gr cast gas checked 357 magnum loads with 2400 powder to 1370 fps from my German 6" revolver.
I did not crimp and marked 1 chamber and left that bullet in there for 10 rounds of firing and then removed it and measured for setback and there was none.

If you do get set back a light crimp will probably help that out.

I think factory loaded ammo has a crimp because rough handling and the possibility of any set back may really bring pressures up and may make the ammo not chamber at all in some weapons.

(not go up the feed ramp smoothly)

I loaded some bullets into some cases and then drilled a hole into the bullet and ran a wire through the bullet so I can pull the bullet out of the case.

Chucked the case in a vise.
Had a small scale rigged up pulling on the wire to check Bullet pull in PSI.

I had a 357 loaded with a powder coated bullet that NO crimp and the bullet would not come out of the case.
Wire sliced through the bullet.
It was the kind of wire you hang a picture on the wall with the stranded stuff.

So there you go again Swampers telling an inexperienced reloader about dangerous reloading techniques and ideas because of some test you did.

 

[swampratt]

So there you go again Swampers telling an inexperienced reloader about dangerous reloading techniques and ideas because of some test you did.

There you go again assuming things.
Want the data??????????????????????

Well here it is in a big arsed nut shell.
Lyman 49th 357 Magnum 170gr. Linotype, 2400 powder at 13.5 gr 1242 fps at 41,100 C.U.P.
NOT gas checked.

Firearm used was Universal Receiver 4" 1-18 3/4 twist and Groove Dia. .356"
Cast bullet sized to .357"

I used the same load but 6" revolver I do not know the twist and the Bullet was Wheel weight lead.
Probably softer than Linotype. It is a Lee bullet with Gas check and Lee Alox Lube.
I gas Checked it.

My groove diameter is .3565" I Sized my bullets to .357".
1370 for my longer barrel pistol with larger Inside diameter by .0005"
My grooves and rifling in this German revolver are glass smooth also.


Look at that pressure of the Lyman load 41,100 C.U.P. Max C.U.P. for the 357 Magnum is 45,000
Larger groove, softer bullet, longer barrel, same load, more FPS I do not think I have exceeded any pressure limits.

NOTHING I STATED IS DANGEROUS.

 

[magna19]

If the longest cases fit in the chambers and you do not crimp then you can
load without trimming and you will never notice it on paper.
If I crimp my 357 or 38 with cast bullets accuracy goes down the drain.

Jacketed I have not played with much but what I did play with only got ironed out with a Lee carbide crimp die and Not crimped and accuracy was fine.

Never noticing on paper means you cant shoot well. Accuracy suffers from crimping means you dont know how to crimp.

@Sgt Dog when I am curious on something I set out to satisfy my curiosity.

I have shot 170gr cast gas checked 357 magnum loads with 2400 powder to 1370 fps from my German 6" revolver.
I did not crimp and marked 1 chamber and left that bullet in there for 10 rounds of firing and then removed it and measured for setback and there was none.

If you do get set back a light crimp will probably help that out.

I think factory loaded ammo has a crimp because rough handling and the possibility of any set back may really bring pressures up and may make the ammo not chamber at all in some weapons.

(not go up the feed ramp smoothly)

I loaded some bullets into some cases and then drilled a hole into the bullet and ran a wire through the bullet so I can pull the bullet out of the case.

Chucked the case in a vise.
Had a small scale rigged up pulling on the wire to check Bullet pull in PSI.

I had a 357 loaded with a powder coated bullet that NO crimp and the bullet would not come out of the case.
Wire sliced through the bullet.
It was the kind of wire you hang a picture on the wall with the stranded stuff.

Getting 1370 fps from a 170 cast bullet without a crimp means you only have a cheaper german revolver and dont have a S&W Model 19 or a cronograph.. After reading your reloading comments for several years now means you really should go back to your hole before they get someone hurt.

 

[swampratt]

After reading your reloading comments for several years now means you really should go back to your hole before they get someone hurt.

How in the world will someone get hurt with book data.
Yea a lot of my stuff is not in books you find laying around.

I have ran hundreds of rounds over my Chronograph thank you very much.

Yea it is a cheap German revolver but unlike my S&W Revolver or My Ruger Super Blackhawk it did not have a pinch where the barrel entered the frame.
And all my chambers are spot on unlike the Ruger.


F those S&W and Ruger people for sending out Revolvers in the shape I get.

I have a fix for ya.

 

[Okie4570]

So there you go again Swampers telling an inexperienced reloader about dangerous reloading techniques and ideas because of some test you did.

If you're going to call someone out as providing dangerous info, why don't you state what you're thinking? His load is a published load that's been around for decades.

 

[KurtM]

Well, with all that in mind ...... Set back is not the problem with revolvers. Bullets moving forward sure is, that's why the heavy roll crimp. Now thick wall cases like a 357 (diameter to brass thickness) you can get away with not much crimp, or in some cases no crimp, but I dare you to try to not crimp large caliber heavy bullets, especially thin wall cases like 45 Colt, and even 44 SPL. Especially when loaded near max. 44 magnum will pull bullets and tie up the pistol fairly quickly, so will 41 mag with 220 gr bullets. There is no way not to crimp in a 475 Linebaugh. 454 Casul, 500 S&W. Matter of fact if you Chrono big caliber, heavy bullet, max loads, you will notice the first and last shot velocity will change a bunch as the crimps loosen due to inertia pulling of bullets.
Now I'll tell you right now I have never trimmed a straight wall case, but I do sort brass by manufacturer for heavy stuff so there isn't much length difference so the crimp is fairly consistent. If a bullet has a crimp groove you will never hurt accuracy by crimping into it. Go to far and you deform the bullet and accuracy could suffer.