Variability in COL?

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Perplexed

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I spent several hours over the past couple of nights setting up a Dillon 650XL to reload .38 Special for cowboy action shooting. The dies are Redding titanium carbide. Earlier today, I reloaded ten cartridges, using a Hodgdon recipe that called for 3.0 to 3.8 grains of Trail Boss, a Hornady cowboy bullet of 140 grains, Winchester SP primers, and Winchester .38 Special cases. The velocity will be around 700 fps. The COL was listed as 1.450, which is the recommended minimum in a Winchester 1894 lever action. I'll also be using these cartridges in my SA revolvers. Both rifle and revolvers are rated for .357 Magnum.

I'm loading toward the low end of the powder range, and my weighing of the powder generates results at the desired level +/- 0.1 grains. Still above the minimum, and well below maximum, so I'm comfortable with that.

However, the COL of the finished cartridges, when measured with a digital caliper, is 1.450 +/- 0.003 inches. That is, it dips as low as 1.447" and as high as 1.453".

Is that amount of variance normal for a 650 with the Redding dies? Should I be scrapping any cartridges that are not 1.450" COL?
 

D. Hargrove

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1.437-1.455 is the COL spread for most 38 Special loads with the 140gr bullet I have seen. I would not worry one bit about your COL spread with the numbers you reported. In the course of creating the perfect recipe for each weapon, you may simply find that the shorter work best in the pistol and the longer in the rifle, or have no discernable difference between the two. I believe you are "safe" with your COLs.
 

Perplexed

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Thanks, folks. This is my first foray into cartridge reloading, and I keep having visions of waking up in the ER after I pull the trigger on the first reloaded round.
 

chazroh

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I remember those feelings, this was my experience on my first round loaded which was a rifle. put a round in the rifle, get on target, control breathing, pull trigger with eyes closed! And hey, I still have all of my face!!
 

Mad Professor

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I have found a bit of variance can be attributed to the shell plate not being fully loaded on the 650 and 550 as the first round and the last couple of rounds come through.
If you set up the COL with a single round, you'll see the most difference compared to round coming off a fully loaded plate.

Shoot them!



If you need it closer for a long range bench rest precision rifle, you need to be loading on a Rock Chucker instead of a Dillon. ;)

There are some kits to clamp the tool head into the Dillon tighter, which is supposed to help some. But I never felt the need.
 

Perplexed

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Well, I shot some of my hand loads this morning through a Uberti Cattleman 1873 SA revolver, and I was pleasantly surprised with the results. I had also taken some factory "cowboy load" ammo with 158-grain flat-nose round-nose bullets and a rated velocity of 800 fps. When my gf and I loaded two rounds of each in the revolver without telling the other the load sequence, we could still tell the difference between my loads and the factory loads, with mine having a lighter recoil.

Then we tried each ammo in my 1894, and the factory ammo performed just fine during the cyling stage, while my loads caused slight hiccups. Nothing serious like a stove pipe or a jam, but enough that the cycling sequence was slowed down while we worked the lever to get some of my rounds to go into the chamber rather than hang up on the edge. Since the factory rounds had a visibly shorter COL, I can only assume the rounded shoulders of the factory bullet vs. the truncated cone of my bullets were the reason for the smoother cycling of the factory ammo.

I also had loaded up some 12 gauge shells for testing in my Winchester clone 1887 lever shotgun, since the only factory ammo I had, some Federal target loads, were often getting stuck in the chamber after firing. The factory ammo had steel bases, and since I had to use a cleaning rod to drive out the spent shell, I figured the steel wasn't contracting enough to facilitate extraction. I got some once-fired Federal Gold Medal hulls with brass bases and loaded them with a mild recipe, and the 25 shells I produced extracted just fine after firing. So I was pleased on that score as well.

Question; all of the shotgun reloading recipes I see in manufacturer's load databases list a maximum amount of powder for a given load, but none of the recipes list a minimum amount. Since I want to produce very light loads with 7/8 oz shot, how low can I go with the amount of powder? I was using a 15% reduction with a Hodgdon recipe for a light field load, but the recoil was still stouter than I had expected. Is there a rule of thumb for the amount of reduction one can safely use with a shotgun load?

Oh, and best of all - no one lost any body parts today! :D
 

Tin Star Firearms

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Perplexed,
I agree with the others that small variations in C.O.L. are not a huge issue. When I am loading for a revolver/lever gun combo, i usually work up the rifle load first and get perfect functioning with it then switch over to the revolver. The revolver is much more tolerant of variations in belling, overall length and crimp. My rifle loads always do well in my revolvers but it does not always work the other way around.

Congratulations on your new hobby.

Andrew
 

dennishoddy

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I also had loaded up some 12 gauge shells for testing in my Winchester clone 1887 lever shotgun, since the only factory ammo I had, some Federal target loads, were often getting stuck in the chamber after firing. The factory ammo had steel bases, and since I had to use a cleaning rod to drive out the spent shell, I figured the steel wasn't contracting enough to facilitate extraction. I got some once-fired Federal Gold Medal hulls with brass bases and loaded them with a mild recipe, and the 25 shells I produced extracted just fine after firing. So I was pleased on that score as well.

Question; all of the shotgun reloading recipes I see in manufacturer's load databases list a maximum amount of powder for a given load, but none of the recipes list a minimum amount. Since I want to produce very light loads with 7/8 oz shot, how low can I go with the amount of powder? I was using a 15% reduction with a Hodgdon recipe for a light field load, but the recoil was still stouter than I had expected. Is there a rule of thumb for the amount of reduction one can safely use with a shotgun load?

Oh, and best of all - no one lost any body parts today! :D

Your best bet is to go online with the manufacturers guidance or get one of their reloading manuals that can guide you for a low power shot shell recipe.
Some of the cowboy shooting forums should give some good intel as well.
 

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