Weapon light on carry gun?

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Glocktogo

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I see no need for a WML. And for an individual based on my low light training think they are a detriment .. I do carry two hand held lights. But I'm also scared of the dark....

I'm just trying to clarify why you believe WML's are a detriment or not necessary based on these shooting reviews, but when the reviews show no need for a handheld light either (or any light for that matter), why you carry two of them? So let me ask you this, does having a hand held light in your support hand allow you to draw your firearm more quickly or shoot it more accurately? If not, then what purpose do they serve?
 

NikatKimber

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Based on how much and what training?

The one time I spent doing night shooting during a class it was a clear advantage to be able to use both hands on the gun. Like night and day difference. Pun intended.

A hand held light can be manipulated to still provide some support to the weapon, but it is dramatically less than both hands gripping the gun.

That's not to say you shouldn't carry a handheld light ALSO by any means. There are certainly times when a dedicated flashlight that is NOT mounted to a gun is necessary.
 

ef9turbo

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I truly believe that every gun that you're gonna carry for a SD use needs a light. How are you going to identify your target at night without illumination? Sure, I carry a small light on me at all times and can shoot accurately using that light, whether it be shooting one hand, or holding the light between my knuckles and shooting two hands. Speed is the elimination of excess movement, so why have to fumble with getting a light out of your pocket to illuminate whatever you're shooting at? Why not have it readily available to you if you can?

I carry a G19 w/ XC1 appendix and it does NOT affect my method of carry or presentation. The XC1 is not a constant on, so those worried about a constant on light is not an issue. I have trained in low light shooting and can shoot well in the dark with no light. A light is there simply to help you identify a threat, much like a scope on a rifle is there to simply help you see better.
 

prdator

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I Cary two lights for work mainly. One does have searching capabilities and can be us d for other things.

The training I'm mainly referring to is AMIS from Shivworks. It's a Force on Force class based on an individual approach to clearing the building or searching for a person in the building What I've seen and you will to if you seek the training out is that the guys searching will use the WML way to much and get the **** shot out of them. The WML does have a role it's just very limited. Agin what my and others have found doing research is that for an individual a weapon mounted light is not needed think about it if you can't see the bad guy or bad guy can't see you.

If i was .mil/ LEO I'd think about having a WML depending on what i was doing.

And most LEO/.mil Guys will run one or believe they need to run one. And there role is much different than a civilian. We have found NO civilian gun fight that required a light.

Now as a home defense gun I run a WML but that's for a much different reason...

Now if you think that a light on the gun makes it better for you rock on.....
 
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Glocktogo

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Based on how much and what training?

The one time I spent doing night shooting during a class it was a clear advantage to be able to use both hands on the gun. Like night and day difference. Pun intended.

A hand held light can be manipulated to still provide some support to the weapon, but it is dramatically less than both hands gripping the gun.

That's not to say you shouldn't carry a handheld light ALSO by any means. There are certainly times when a dedicated flashlight that is NOT mounted to a gun is necessary.

I'd just like to point out that Spencer has a LOT of training and is responsible for bringing a lot of quality defensive shooting instructors to Oklahoma for our benefit. I value his opinion quite a bit and I'm not attacking him or his position. He has valid information on the subject and we should listen to it.

I do however recognize that tactics change and evolve almost continually. Sometimes for the good and sometimes because theories are developed that aren't borne out by all the relevant data from the street. Simply put, poor tactics can get you killed by an aggressor, no light, handheld or WML. My questions are merely to test the beliefs held and make people think critically about those beliefs. In this case, most people are over-reliant on artificial light, whether it's handheld or WML. I'd be willing to bet that in the experiences Spencer is relating, lights are often used too frequently, too long and/or incorrectly. A handheld light should be used very sparingly, and a WML extremely sparingly. A WML is not a substitute for a handheld and I in fact carry a handheld at all times. I'm wearing one right now as a matter of fact. The last time I used it was during a brief power outage at work on Monday. That's just one of many things you should never use a WML for.

I just wanted to clarify my line of questioning. Thanks for the intelligent debate.
 

Glocktogo

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I Cary two lights for work mainly. One does have searching capabilities and can be us d for other things.

The training I'm mainly referring to is AMIS from Shivworks. It's a Force on Force class based on an individual approach to clearing the building or searching for a person in the building What I've seen and you will to if you seek the training out is that the guys searching will use the WML way to much and get the **** shot out of them. The WML does have a role it's just very limited. Agin what my and others have found doing research is that for an individual a weapon mounted light is not needed think about it if you can't see the bad guy or bad guy can't see you.

Now if you think that a light on the gun makes it better for you rock on.....

Looks like we were both typing at the same time. You're just more succinct than me. ;)
 

Gunbuffer

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I think that trainers that have no immediate connection to LE/MIL issues provide a very valuable “check” for most civilian ccw carriers. Tom G is one of the ex LE guys that really gets it and tailors for the common man.
I find myself thinking “ well, a wml will really help with holding suspects at point” then I realize when the heck would I reasonably be doing this in any possible violent encounter? I no longer have a commission card, and I don’t own a museum or moonlight as a night watchman.
Those times when a light is helpful to a civilian, it’s usually best not to have it glued to a weapon.
 

D. Hargrove

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There seems to me a point where any aftermarket addition to any weapon is a source of psychological edge to the shooter. If you add a WML to your G19 and feel it provides you some tactical edge in a potential SD situation, then by all means add a WML to your ensemble. The key at least in my mind is to train with whatever system you have and become as proficient and comfortable with it as possible. If there is a reason you believe a WML will allow you to PID a potentially adversarial element, then a quick on and off may be for you. On the other hand if engaged in a fire fight and a flash of light gives the bad guy a target to engage, well that might suck just a bit.

In my home I am confident in the layout of the home, low level light sources and possible ingress/egress points, I have IMO no need for any WML as I have trained repeatedly on accessing the home from several different locations and am extremely familiar with what should and should not be in any given room. That of course changes when an issue occurs out on the farm where things are extremely fluid with regard to light sources and potential engagement zones. For this purpose my AR is wearing a SureFire with a pressure activated switch just in case a flash of light assists in the PID of a target.

If the light makes you happy and you are confident in the use of the weapon, them more power to ya. If not, then what ever makes you feel that you will engage the adversary in a accurate/timely/efficient manner.
 

NikatKimber

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I'd just like to point out that Spencer has a LOT of training and is responsible for bringing a lot of quality defensive shooting instructors to Oklahoma for our benefit. I value his opinion quite a bit and I'm not attacking him or his position. He has valid information on the subject and we should listen to it.

That's good to know. I had no idea he was anything other than another Joe Blow like me.
 

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