Why are Oklahoma's roads so crappy?

[Apogee]

DAMN YOU CLAY!! YOU'VE SCREWED UP OUR ROADS! There, I said it. I've also heard that he's Obama's half brother, but hung like a white-guy.

Probably the closest to the true reason our roads suck. The clay is hard as a rock when dry, and soft as fresh snot when wet. Of course there is also the problem of shrinking to 80% of its original size when hard and swelling to 120% of its original size when when soft.

 

[Swab]

So it seems like you work in the road construction business. If you don't mind, tell us about the actual construction contracts and what is specified by Oklahoma versus other states?

I have to assume that the actual methods and materials that we specify are inferior versus other states due to the amount of money that we have available? Or the money is being siphoned off somewhere along the way (not accusing your company of this, mind you...)?

It all just doesn't make sense to me, Arkansas isn't that much better off than we are financially, and surely there is corruption and graft at about the same level in pretty much every other state....

To be honest, I haven't been a part of any out of state work, so I'm no help there. I'm going to assume that they are similar to Oklahoma. As far as spending goes, there is always more cost than what the contract shows. Engineering, testing, special permits (when applicable) are all in addition to the lowest responsible bid.

Edit- Infrastructure not included in contract is also paid by the owner. Which can include natural gas pipelines, communications and power lines, etc. Which are done under separate contracts which add even more costs. Like I said before, it's more complicated than some realize.

Sent from the land of teepee's and buffaloes

 

[dennishoddy]

I just quickly scanned through Title 69 (Roads, Bridges, and Ferries) and found no such law. That said, it could be a rule promulgated by an administrative agency, in this case, probably the State Highways Commission.

Well, that rules out what that guy said, but now we need to wonder if ODOT is the agency that allows the lower grade of asphalt and aggregate to be put on our roads?

BTW my info came from Evans and Associates. One of the largest road building company's in Ok.

 

[Driller]

I work in many states surrounding Oklahoma and I have often wondered why our roads are so chitty. The temperature extremes is crap. Arkansas, Texas, Kansas, Missouri and others have the same weather we have. Every state has it's crappy roads, but we seem to have the most. When I have to figure how to bring all my equipment back home, and figure on the most out-of-state roads to get home to protect my equipment, there is a problem. Some of our roads are so crappy, I think someone should be in jail! Hwy 69 around Eufala. Hwy 69 around Chouteau. Hwy 412 around Chouteau. I-44 through SW OKC. I-40 east of OKC. US412/64 west of Tulsa to the turnpike. Are you kidding me?

I've seriously though about moving out of Oklahoma because of the crappy roads; that stuff costs me money in repairs and a lot of grief in bouncing!

Even the turnpikes have become crappy.

 

[Dave70968]

Well, that rules out what that guy said, but now we need to wonder if ODOT is the agency that allows the lower grade of asphalt and aggregate to be put on our roads?

BTW my info came from Evans and Associates. One of the largest road building company's in Ok.

A lot of people don't distinguish between laws--i.e. statutes--and administrative rules, either because they don't think the person to whom they're speaking will understand the subtleties, or because they themselves don't. Violation of a rule can still lead to prosecution in court and assessment of penalties, it's just handled in an agency court instead of District Court, and all of the parties (save for the defendant) are agency employees. The end result to the defendant is much the same.

I only point this out to explain why I didn't find it in Title 69; it could still be a binding rule, it'd just be a lot more challenging to find.

 

[dennishoddy]

A lot of people don't distinguish between laws--i.e. statutes--and administrative rules, either because they don't think the person to whom they're speaking will understand the subtleties, or because they themselves don't. Violation of a rule can still lead to prosecution in court and assessment of penalties, it's just handled in an agency court instead of District Court, and all of the parties (save for the defendant) are agency employees. The end result to the defendant is much the same.

I only point this out to explain why I didn't find it in Title 69; it could still be a binding rule, it'd just be a lot more challenging to find.

Understand.

It might take more in depth research. Thanks for the input.

 

[Shadowrider]

Oklahoma roads are just plain embarrassing. When I was working up that way SW Kansas had gravel section line roads better than our interstates. And I'm not exaggerating!

Roads can be built better here and have. Does anyone remember the Phillips 66 commercial that used to run on the OKC TV stations that claimed a whole bunch of repair free years of a street that was done in Tulsa with some underlayment they made? It's been so long I can't remember the details but it was purported to be light years ahead of what they were doing then, which is a hell of a lot better than what we have now. I was also driving I-40 out to Amarillo when they were totally redoing it, as in ripping it up and starting over, not just a surface job. The thickness of the concrete and the amount of steel they put in was probably 3 times anything I've seen here. I was amazed.

 

[twoguns?]

I didnt read the whole thread , it always seems to be some kind of CONSPRIRACY
The actual Reason is the substrate, the clay that most of OK rest on.
Yea theres parts that dont have ..as much, but its still there.
?The clay swells and contracts with the water tables, thus making it move a great deal.
The Conspricy is that no engineer will admit to it, that means They cant solve the problem
TIFWIW/WTFDIK.... -_ /

 

[Junior Bonner]

$14,000,000 to help Palestinians in the Gaza, $240,000,000 to bolster Israel's Iron Dome missile defense system, and those are just drops in the bucket. None of this came up on a ballot for me to vote on. So money that could go on roads here, goes on bombs, there. We will of course, rebuild Gaza. But it won't be on a ballot for us to vote on.

 

[crrcboatz]

$14,000,000 to help Palestinians in the Gaza, $240,000,000 to bolster Israel's Iron Dome missile defense system, and those are just drops in the bucket. None of this came up on a ballot for me to vote on. So money that could go on roads here, goes on bombs, there. We will of course, rebuild Gaza. But it won't be on a ballot for us to vote on.

Agree 100% but Oklahoma has its own demons. They probably include everything already mentioned. We are our own worst enemy in this area. Corruption, poor standards, poor construction, not enough monitoring, etc. We need to clean up our own house too. Depending on big govt to fix things has its price. I prefer we clean up our own house first.

Kansas has a population of almost 1/2 ours, yet they seem to generate enough money to smoke us for quality roads.