Why My Family Opposes Certain Vaccines

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CoronaBorealis

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I think there are ways to develop these vaccines using non fetal means, they may just be more inconvenient or unknown.

It’s like fossil fuels. I refuse to believe the world has to run on dead dinosaurs, but there’s currently little incentive to find a new source of fuel. We could do it if we really put effort into it though.
 

NightShade

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No offense but the majority of the medical advances we have came out of world war two Germany. The doctors did not have any need to worry about ethics so the experiments were rampant and cruel. If you are going to an experiment you feel was unethical get in the way of allowing you and/or your family then you may just want to forgo most if not all modern medicine.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-medical-experiments

I would suggest however that you participate and then remember and honor the sacrifices made. Learn about things and teach your family and children about the losses and help make sure the same thing does not need to happen again. Because honestly if you didn't know all the stuff that came out of Nazi Germany you have a lot to learn about.
 

tRidiot

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So the level of risk doesn’t matter because no activity is risk-free? :lookaroun

I guess if that works for you that’s fine, but I evaluate risk a little more carefully.
To use your argument, I think that is a vast oversimplification. You really want to tell me I don't evaluate risk all that carefully? Honestly, that is EXACTLY what I do, every single day. In fact, I've spent many thousands of hours evaluating risk not based on internet searches or anecdotes, but actual physical data and experience from DOING this every day. Administering medications, vaccines, treatments, etc. I don't just read about it - I DO it. AND I have real-world experience with the consequences - both personal AND professional. I am held to account for my decisions, on a daily basis. My livelihood, my family's livelihood, my own prosperity, the very LIVES of my patients - all depend on my ability to evaluate risks and consequences, and give people direct information and help them make choices that can and do literally make the difference between life and death for them.

I do it. Every day.

So... cone on, you really don't think I spend a significant amount of time evaluating risk? I mean... that's what you said. "If that works for you, that's fine, but I evaluate risk a little more carefully." What do you think we do, just let some drug rep come in and snowball us? Like we look at their printed up materials and just accept it all, hook, line and sinker, as gospel fact, and we don't question their data, motives, etc? In fact, we have a lot of training AND experience in reading between the lines in their studies, their data, etc., and figuring out what they're NOT saying, and in evaluating the differences in what one manufacturer claims vs. a different thing another manufacturer claims.

Risk mitigation - that's my job, essentially, in a nutshell. I'm just saying, stop and think about it - a lot of people think we're a bunch of puppets or parrots - but I can promise you, me and my partners talk about this stuff ALL the time, and we read through the BS. We tolerate the reps who come in, we nod and smile at their sales pitches, and we tell them we'll consider their meds as a treatment - because we need the samples of some to give to our patients. But don't think for a second that most of us are fooled by the propaganda. We're more than capable of wading through the BS.

If the other child is vaccinated, my child can’t infect them. Isn’t that the point of vaccination?
...
Again, if you are vaccinated, why do you give a sh*t whether I do? Theoretically you are safe.

Not everyone CAN be vaccinated, and when someone has something else going on, their previous immunity can wane - cancer and chemo, another illness, and sometimes just out of the blue. I had to get a booster for varicella. Even though I had it as a child. But yes, you can risk your own child's life - but don't fool yourself for a second thinking there isn't another risk to society as a whole or to other individuals who don't have the immune system to fight things off.

<edit> And just in case someone wants to think I'm some kind of Gestapo-promoter, I am NOT advocating forced vaccination. I let people walk out of my office every day who have refused various vaccines, and I don't browbeat them for it. I give them information, and let them make their own decisions.
 

CoronaBorealis

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I'm a troll because I stated my families reasons for opposing CERTAIN vaccines? Troll because it isn't the popular opinion? I was trying to educate people on why other people see things differently. I never said any of you had to agree.

Glad to know you all aren't any different than the liberal elitists who slander you because you choose to own guns. The level of arrogance is high.

I'm not opposed to vaccines in principle -- just how they are developed. Do it without aborted fetuses and I'm in.
 

Ethan N

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To use your argument, I think that is a vast oversimplification. You really want to tell me I don't evaluate risk all that carefully? Honestly, that is EXACTLY what I do, every single day. In fact, I've spent many thousands of hours evaluating risk not based on internet searches or anecdotes, but actual physical data and experience from DOING this every day. Administering medications, vaccines, treatments, etc. I don't just read about it - I DO it. AND I have real-world experience with the consequences - both personal AND professional. I am held to account for my decisions, on a daily basis. My livelihood, my family's livelihood, my own prosperity, the very LIVES of my patients - all depend on my ability to evaluate risks and consequences, and give people direct information and help them make choices that can and do literally make the difference between life and death for them.

I do it. Every day.

So... cone on, you really don't think I spend a significant amount of time evaluating risk? I mean... that's what you said. "If that works for you, that's fine, but I evaluate risk a little more carefully." What do you think we do, just let some drug rep come in and snowball us? Like we look at their printed up materials and just accept it all, hook, line and sinker, as gospel fact, and we don't question their data, motives, etc? In fact, we have a lot of training AND experience in reading between the lines in their studies, their data, etc., and figuring out what they're NOT saying, and in evaluating the differences in what one manufacturer claims vs. a different thing another manufacturer claims.

Risk mitigation - that's my job, essentially, in a nutshell. I'm just saying, stop and think about it - a lot of people think we're a bunch of puppets or parrots - but I can promise you, me and my partners talk about this stuff ALL the time, and we read through the BS. We tolerate the reps who come in, we nod and smile at their sales pitches, and we tell them we'll consider their meds as a treatment - because we need the samples of some to give to our patients. But don't think for a second that most of us are fooled by the propaganda. We're more than capable of wading through the BS.
Okay I’ve got to stop trying to rely on sarcasm to make a point. Having no reason to think that you do your work with anything but devotion and careful consideration for what’s best for your patients, I was trying to point out that what you said can’t be an honest representation of how you think about risk. The point is, people with hesitations about vaccines aren’t asking for them to be “risk-free.” They have legitimate concerns (most of them), whether they’re right or wrong.

Sorry for pissing you off. I think everything you just said is right on. I love doctors. I love their knowledge and expertise, and I love their passion. You don’t get through those 20-hour residency shifts without some serious drive.
 
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