Why one cop carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job

[ignerntbend]

Jack is ok. Yall leave Jack alone. Jack can be funny.
And he's our contact at the top of the world. How's the fishing up there now that you're hogging all the light?

 

[0311]

I am tempted to go down below and do a couple of cylinders and post the pics, but what would be the use? My reloads are fast, two handed double actions are super fast and on target. Forget about Calahan shooting w/o plugs and all those slow follow ups. Although he did cite to a fellow officer why he preferred the .44 magnum over the .357 magnum, and in this he was justified. This is technically a hunting revolver, but in my opinion it's a combat revolver. On hardened targets it does what an M60 machine gun will do, and is alot easier to carry.

 

[0311]

Another thing, if ammo carrying is the primary consideration, consider a high end .22 caliber pistol. 14 hits with one of those will stop a perp as well as 14 hits with a .45, and there's alot more ammo carrying potential. The .22 LR is the primary munition used on Swamp People for shooting those alligators. Those Ol' Boys would not be using .22 LR if it didn' work. But again, we have this adherence to the .45/9mm. There ARE alternatives. This was not an isolated incident, a few posts above an OSA cited 17 center mass hits with a Glock .40...

 

[twoguns?]

When I started out as a LEO it was right around the big shift from 9mm to .45acp among many departments due to the big gunfight at the time where the 9mm was seen as ineffective. As a result of that almost every officer I knew that was carrying a 9mm switched to the .45acp while others like the OHP switched to .40S&W Glocks iirc. That also meant the market was flooded with 9mm's, S&W and Glock probably being two most common. It also meant as a rookie with not much money I was able to buy my gun real cheap if I stayed with the 9mm, which I did. It was actually my chiefs duty carry gun so I knew it was a well cared for gun. It was a stainless S&W model 59 that had been customized a little by having the "shiny" toned down on what I think was a nickel slide. The gun was the first Gen of the high capacity double stack 9mms and shot like a dream (I'd give anything to have it back or even find another non-blued 59).

I was at the time, and continue to be, of the mind that having a generous amount of spare ammo on tap is a good thing. I couldn't imagine a worse scenario than being in an active gunfight and run dry so I carried four spare mags of 15 rounds each in addition to the 15+1 in my gun. I can't count how many times I was asked why I carried 76 rounds total when many officers at the time had switched to the S&W 4506 which held 8 in the mag and generally only carried two spares which adds up to 25 total. The honest answer was because I could, the high capacity mags didn't take much space up so why not.

As for the officer in this story you just have to accept that in rare cases something like that can happen. I'll guarantee there are still enough American veterans around that can give you more cases of the .45acp dropping bad guys in a hurry. In WWII the Germans were not a big fan of the 1911 because of how deadly it was, they feared being in a close quarter fight with an American armed with the 1911. From 1911 to today the .45acp has proved itself as a superior man stopping cartridge above and beyond any other. Nowadays with ammo being so good you can get similar results with a 9mm but those same technologies are applied to the .45acp also which puts it right back to the top. I can understand this shootout story make people wonder about the capability of their current .45 but you have to look at the complete picture not just a tiny part of it. In other words changing from a proven defensive caliber to something else due to this one situation is a huge overreaction. The fact is whether you're shooting a 9mm or a .45acp if you use quality ammunition, a quality weapon and stay proficient with your chosen caliber you're ok. There's no need to carry an RPG just because there's a tiny chance someone is going to attack you with a tank. The world didn't change because of this one officers gunfight, everything that was..still is. If a bad guy attacks you and you shoot him with your 9mm or your .45acp center mass there is almost no chance he's going to continue. Switching to a .44magnum is actually going to do the opposite of what you want to happen if involved in a gunfight. You're limited to either 6 rounds and slow reloads or a huge semiautomatic that is extremely difficult to handle in a high stress situation. If you run into a bad guy who's running at you while shooting what's happens when your gun runs dry? Unless you're Jerry Miculek you're a dead man. Suppose you did choose to carry a .44mag and something happens where you have to defend yourself with that gun. You shoot bad guy, the bullet goes through him and injures or kills a bystander or even if the round safely buries into a wall, you will be in court regardless. Now instead of being able to defend your choice of firearm because you chose a common defensive handgun and used accepted defensive ammunition you are going to have to defend your choice of using a gun/caliber that is commonly known to be extremely destructive and a guaranteed pass through shot to a lawyer that is going to eat you like a steak in that courtroom. You will very likely be charged with a crime even if the shooting was deemed self defense.

This officer had a really scary encounter and he decided to change to a gun that he could carry more ammo. That is a logical and understandable reaction. For Joe Public to lose all faith in a proven cartridge because of what happened to this officer is an over reaction. How this bad guy survived as long as he did with the injuries he had and not be under the influence is just amazing but it's a one in a million situation. I've heard a lot of soldiers who fought in Afghanistan say they would shoot enemy soldiers over and over with their Beretta's and the bad guys kept fighting because they were so drugged up. Even shot multiple times with a 5.56 they would often survive long enough to go through another mag. Same thing happens when police get into gunfights with drugged up bad guys here in the US. When that happens you have to change the rules. If you've shot Mr. Bad Guy three times center mass and he doesn't seem phased the game has changed, now you have to look at options like head shots which are pretty difficult to do when you're being shot at but that's how it is. You don't swap your standard duty gun for a hand cannon just in case it happens because now you've handicapped yourself for the 99.999% of situations where you're required to use your weapon.

Thanks Brandi, so true.
Another thing is I try to stay with what the local PD is carrying.
Except I carry a g30 (PD carrys a g21)13 rd mag that fits my 30...
(Oh the RPG is in the trunk....Just In Case.....?

.Oh and just because , carry what you shoot well, and are comfortable with, and practice,practice,practice

 

[yukonjack]

Jack is ok. Yall leave Jack alone. Jack can be funny.
And he's our contact at the top of the world. How's the fishing up there now that you're hogging all the light?

Sir, it didn't get dark until almost 11:00 last night. Sadly ice fishing has come to a halt. I'm just not taking the chance on walking out on the slushy mess. Since no one else is either I figure it's a smart choice. The bears are out of hibernation and the moose are gettin' testy cause calving season is right around the corner.

 

[0311]

PMR-30


The PMR-30 is a light weight, full size pistol chambered for the flat-shooting .22Magnum cartridge (.22WMR). The PMR-30 operates on a unique hybrid blowback/locked-breech system. This operation system allows for the use of a wide variety of ammunition as it seamlessly adjusts between locked breach and blowback operation, depending on the pressure of the cartridge. It uses a double stack magazine of a new design that holds 30 rounds and fits completely in the grip of the pistol. The trigger is a crisp single action with an over-travel stop. The manual safety is a thumb activated ambidextrous safety lever (up for SAFE, down for FIRE). The slide locks back after the last shot and a manual slide lock lever is also provided. The light, crisp trigger pull and fiber optic sights make the PMR-30 ideal for target shooting and hunting small game.


TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

Calibers: .22 Magnum (.22WMR)
Weight unloaded: 13.6oz. 385.6g
Loaded Magazine: 6oz. 170.1g
Length: 7.9" 200.7mm
Height: 5.8" 147.3mm
Width: 1.3" 33.0mm
Barrel length: 4.3" 109.2mm
Sight radius: 6.9" 175.3mm
Energy (40gr): 138ft-lbs 187J
Capacity: 30 rounds
Trigger pull: 4-6 lbs 17.8-26.7N



Slide and barrel are 4140 steel, frame is 7075 aluminum. Grip, slide cover, trigger, mag release, and safety levers are glass reinforced Nylon (Zytel), much like other Kel-Tec Pistols. Magazine is Also Zytel and holds 30 rounds, with round count ports. Other features include: dual opposing extractors for reliability, heel magazine release to aid in magazine retention, dovetailed aluminum front sight, Picatinny accessory rail under the barrel, Urethane recoil buffer, captive coaxial recoil springs. PMR30 disassembles for cleaning by removal of a single pin.




Description

MSRP



PMR-30 $ 415.00











[Broken External Image]


Holds 30 rounds .22 magnum, fully contained in the handle. Why carry only 145 rounds? 14 hits from a .45, and 22 hits from a .40 begs consideration of viable alternatives. Obviously I stand alone in my opinion of the .44 magnum. But with this Keltec a new dimension would be opened up to carry more ammo. I'm not bein facetious (I spell that right?), and I'm not making anything up either, on Swamp People Ol' Boys use .22LR to kill 800lb gators.

 

[n2sooners]

PMR-30


The PMR-30 is a light weight, full size pistol chambered for the flat-shooting .22Magnum cartridge (.22WMR). The PMR-30 operates on a unique hybrid blowback/locked-breech system. This operation system allows for the use of a wide variety of ammunition as it seamlessly adjusts between locked breach and blowback operation, depending on the pressure of the cartridge. It uses a double stack magazine of a new design that holds 30 rounds and fits completely in the grip of the pistol. The trigger is a crisp single action with an over-travel stop. The manual safety is a thumb activated ambidextrous safety lever (up for SAFE, down for FIRE). The slide locks back after the last shot and a manual slide lock lever is also provided. The light, crisp trigger pull and fiber optic sights make the PMR-30 ideal for target shooting and hunting small game.


TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

Calibers: .22 Magnum (.22WMR)
Weight unloaded: 13.6oz. 385.6g
Loaded Magazine: 6oz. 170.1g
Length: 7.9" 200.7mm
Height: 5.8" 147.3mm
Width: 1.3" 33.0mm
Barrel length: 4.3" 109.2mm
Sight radius: 6.9" 175.3mm
Energy (40gr): 138ft-lbs 187J
Capacity: 30 rounds
Trigger pull: 4-6 lbs 17.8-26.7N



Slide and barrel are 4140 steel, frame is 7075 aluminum. Grip, slide cover, trigger, mag release, and safety levers are glass reinforced Nylon (Zytel), much like other Kel-Tec Pistols. Magazine is Also Zytel and holds 30 rounds, with round count ports. Other features include: dual opposing extractors for reliability, heel magazine release to aid in magazine retention, dovetailed aluminum front sight, Picatinny accessory rail under the barrel, Urethane recoil buffer, captive coaxial recoil springs. PMR30 disassembles for cleaning by removal of a single pin.




Description

MSRP



PMR-30 $ 415.00











[Broken External Image]


Holds 30 rounds .22 magnum, fully contained in the handle. Why carry only 145 rounds? 14 hits from a .45, and 22 hits from a .40 begs consideration of viable alternatives. Obviously I stand alone in my opinion of the .44 magnum. But with this Keltec a new dimension would be opened up to carry more ammo. I'm not bein facetious (I spell that right?), and I'm not making anything up either, on Swamp People Ol' Boys use .22LR to kill 800lb gators.

I was reading elsewhere about the 22 mag and there are some popular SD rounds being made in that caliber including Gold Dots and Critical Duty. And they were still getting respectable gel penetration of 10-12 inches. Taurus also has a 22 mag version of their poly revolver.

 

[0311]

N2sooners, recoil would be minimal and allow for precision shooting as well. Running low on ammo would not be a possibilty. But because I am so familiar with .44 Remington magnum, I know what it does. Yes. It will COMPLETELY go through the perp, leaving a substantial exit wound that would be dificult to pack. But if I followed the other line of thinking, I would look at alternatives to the .45 and 9mm, since a large volume of ammo is required. The .22 magnum should not be dismissed lightly, and the ability to carry more ammo is enticing, maybe a thousand rounds if bandolier is used.

 

[bettingpython]

Ya know I've read this whole thing, not sure if some of ya'll are serious or not. Shooting under stress sucks. It sucks great big green shitballs, and that's just the stress from a timer or trying to shot a stage just a little faster than someone else. Take your blow a hole through an engine block automatics and revolvers out and go take a damned combat pistol or competition class, go run them in an IDPA. USPSA or IPSEC match and tell us how great you are then. Because unless your name is Jerry Miculek you'd be going home in a body bag in the same situation.

Christ on a cracker a .22 handgun really? Even a .22 mag with "defensive" loads. I wouldn't want to be hit by one but if a determined BG can soak up 14 rounds to the center mass how long you think it's going to take to bleed him out with itty bitty .22 wound channels? Even a shot straight to the heart will leave a BG with plenty of time to kill you before he expires. Non responsive kills mean taking out the CNS, everything else is just trying to make em bleed faster.

Rifle FTW.

 

[0311]

Bettingpython, that's why a Keltec with exponential reload capablity and low recoil is not to be dismissed off hand.