Why one cop carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job

[Glocktogo]

That's why personally, I'm a big fan of face shooting. Man or beast, if you shoot it in the face, it'll probably leave you alone.

Examples of face shooting practice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej5hDSKisms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k35A-FM7vM8

 

[0311]

Yes, Glocktogo. With Keltec you can put 30 into the face as fast as you can pull trigger. No readjustment of aim if he stands there two seconds. Reload in one second is possible, then 30 more. .22 magnums, like getting hit in the face with a hornets nest. The FN57 is a good deal, too. But only holds 20. FN57 said to penetrate body armor.

 

[yukonjack]

Ya know I've read this whole thing, not sure if some of ya'll are serious or not. Shooting under stress sucks. It sucks great big green shitballs, and that's just the stress from a timer or trying to shot a stage just a little faster than someone else. Take your blow a hole through an engine block automatics and revolvers out and go take a damned combat pistol or competition class, go run them in an IDPA. USPSA or IPSEC match and tell us how great you are then. Because unless your name is Jerry Miculek you'd be going home in a body bag in the same situation.Christ on a cracker a .22 handgun really? Even a .22 mag with "defensive" loads. I wouldn't want to be hit by one but if a determined BG can soak up 14 rounds to the center mass how long you think it's going to take to bleed him out with itty bitty .22 wound channels? Even a shot straight to the heart will leave a BG with plenty of time to kill you before he expires. Non responsive kills mean taking out the CNS, everything else is just trying to make em bleed faster.

Rifle FTW.

I guess your ignorance is showing through. Before semi-autos were in "vogue" we were shooting revolvers. That's where we learned marksmanship. That's where you learned how to make each and every shot count, under stress and against the clock. I'm sorry that you lack the necessary skill set to master the revolver. Best you stick to spray and pray automatics.

 

[SoonerP226]

I guess your ignorance is showing through.

I think you're over-generalizing what he said. His comment was aimed at the ".44Mag FTW!" claim, not at wheelguns in general.

 

[_CY_]

That's why personally, I'm a big fan of face shooting. Man or beast, if you shoot it in the face, it'll probably leave you alone.

Examples of face shooting practice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej5hDSKisms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k35A-FM7vM8

makes sense with all the Armour out there .. still a fan of .357 magnum in a feather weight revolver.

 

[0311]

I guess your ignorance is showing through. Before semi-autos were in "vogue" we were shooting revolvers. That's where we learned marksmanship. That's where you learned how to make each and every shot count, under stress and against the clock. I'm sorry that you lack the necessary skill set to master the revolver. Best you stick to spray and pray automatics.

Spray and pray is fine, until you hit a bad primer. I bought a batch of Wolf ammo and was having some fun until I hit a dud. Pays to stay in practice with the semis, drop that mag first, then clear. Comes as a surprise, though.

 

[farmerbyron]

When I started out as a LEO it was right around the big shift from 9mm to .45acp among many departments due to the big gunfight at the time where the 9mm was seen as ineffective. As a result of that almost every officer I knew that was carrying a 9mm switched to the .45acp while others like the OHP switched to .40S&W Glocks iirc. That also meant the market was flooded with 9mm's, S&W and Glock probably being two most common. It also meant as a rookie with not much money I was able to buy my gun real cheap if I stayed with the 9mm, which I did. It was actually my chiefs duty carry gun so I knew it was a well cared for gun. It was a stainless S&W model 59 that had been customized a little by having the "shiny" toned down on what I think was a nickel slide. The gun was the first Gen of the high capacity double stack 9mms and shot like a dream (I'd give anything to have it back or even find another non-blued 59).

I was at the time, and continue to be, of the mind that having a generous amount of spare ammo on tap is a good thing. I couldn't imagine a worse scenario than being in an active gunfight and run dry so I carried four spare mags of 15 rounds each in addition to the 15+1 in my gun. I can't count how many times I was asked why I carried 76 rounds total when many officers at the time had switched to the S&W 4506 which held 8 in the mag and generally only carried two spares which adds up to 25 total. The honest answer was because I could, the high capacity mags didn't take much space up so why not.

As for the officer in this story you just have to accept that in rare cases something like that can happen. I'll guarantee there are still enough American veterans around that can give you more cases of the .45acp dropping bad guys in a hurry. In WWII the Germans were not a big fan of the 1911 because of how deadly it was, they feared being in a close quarter fight with an American armed with the 1911. From 1911 to today the .45acp has proved itself as a superior man stopping cartridge above and beyond any other. Nowadays with ammo being so good you can get similar results with a 9mm but those same technologies are applied to the .45acp also which puts it right back to the top. I can understand this shootout story make people wonder about the capability of their current .45 but you have to look at the complete picture not just a tiny part of it. In other words changing from a proven defensive caliber to something else due to this one situation is a huge overreaction. The fact is whether you're shooting a 9mm or a .45acp if you use quality ammunition, a quality weapon and stay proficient with your chosen caliber you're ok. There's no need to carry an RPG just because there's a tiny chance someone is going to attack you with a tank. The world didn't change because of this one officers gunfight, everything that was..still is. If a bad guy attacks you and you shoot him with your 9mm or your .45acp center mass there is almost no chance he's going to continue. Switching to a .44magnum is actually going to do the opposite of what you want to happen if involved in a gunfight. You're limited to either 6 rounds and slow reloads or a huge semiautomatic that is extremely difficult to handle in a high stress situation. If you run into a bad guy who's running at you while shooting what's happens when your gun runs dry? Unless you're Jerry Miculek you're a dead man. Suppose you did choose to carry a .44mag and something happens where you have to defend yourself with that gun. You shoot bad guy, the bullet goes through him and injures or kills a bystander or even if the round safely buries into a wall, you will be in court regardless. Now instead of being able to defend your choice of firearm because you chose a common defensive handgun and used accepted defensive ammunition you are going to have to defend your choice of using a gun/caliber that is commonly known to be extremely destructive and a guaranteed pass through shot to a lawyer that is going to eat you like a steak in that courtroom. You will very likely be charged with a crime even if the shooting was deemed self defense.

This officer had a really scary encounter and he decided to change to a gun that he could carry more ammo. That is a logical and understandable reaction. For Joe Public to lose all faith in a proven cartridge because of what happened to this officer is an over reaction. How this bad guy survived as long as he did with the injuries he had and not be under the influence is just amazing but it's a one in a million situation. I've heard a lot of soldiers who fought in Afghanistan say they would shoot enemy soldiers over and over with their Beretta's and the bad guys kept fighting because they were so drugged up. Even shot multiple times with a 5.56 they would often survive long enough to go through another mag. Same thing happens when police get into gunfights with drugged up bad guys here in the US. When that happens you have to change the rules. If you've shot Mr. Bad Guy three times center mass and he doesn't seem phased the game has changed, now you have to look at options like head shots which are pretty difficult to do when you're being shot at but that's how it is. You don't swap your standard duty gun for a hand cannon just in case it happens because now you've handicapped yourself for the 99.999% of situations where you're required to use your weapon.

I agree with this whole post.

This was certainly an exceptional and very rare situation and let's face it sometimes **** happens above and beyond what can be expected. Truly the thing that saved this officer's life was marksmanship, keeping a cool head, and just plain luck. I still feel plenty armed with a 9mm for most any situation I, as a non-LEO, will encounter.

This quote seems to fit this discussion.

"You may find me one day dead in a ditch somewhere. But by God, you'll find me in a pile of brass."

 

[okietool]

If he's doing the job fair and square, I don't care if he has 10,000 rounds with him. More power to him.
But I don't get the step down to 9mm either.
I wonder if he was using frangibles or round nose or hollow points?

 

[Glocktogo]

I guess your ignorance is showing through. Before semi-autos were in "vogue" we were shooting revolvers. That's where we learned marksmanship. That's where you learned how to make each and every shot count, under stress and against the clock. I'm sorry that you lack the necessary skill set to master the revolver. Best you stick to spray and pray automatics.

Who's this "we" you keep talking about? You got a mouse in your pocket? You've alluded to your prowess several times, but fail to offer any evidence to support these claims. You've also failed to offer any real substance to this thread. Perhaps you'll just ignore this post along with all the others that don't cater to your ego?

 

[bettingpython]

Jerry, theres this thing called an ignore list. This thread provided great amounts of ignorance leading me to significantly expand the size of my ignore list.