Satanic Monument At the State Capitol

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

RickN

Eye Bleach Salesman
Supporting Member
Special Hen Supporter
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
25,664
Reaction score
34,869
Location
Edmond
DT, you might have missed this one.

Students' rights to initiate and participate in voluntary Bible Clubs or Prayer Groups was unequivocally resolved by the Supreme Court's decision concerning the Equal Access Act, Westside Community Schools v. Mergens. In an 8 to 1 decision, the Mergens Court held that the Equal Access Act which requires public schools to allow student-initiated Bible Clubs or prayer groups equal access to meet on campus, is Constitutional.

Congress enacted the Equal Access Act “to address perceived widespread discrimination against religious speech in public schools.” Id. at 239. Congress stated the purpose of the Act this way: "[Public secondary schools may not discriminate against] any students who wish to conduct a meeting … on the basis of religious, political, philosophical, or other content of the speech at such meetings." 20 U.S.C. § 4071(a) (2006).

Religious groups must be allowed to meet on campus without school officials censoring their religious beliefs or statements. In Mergens, the Supreme Court held that the Equal Access Act was constitutional because allowing equal access to religious clubs does not violate the Establishment Clause. In fact, the Court explained that the Establishment Clause actually mandated that government be neutral with respect to religion:

f a state refused to let religious groups use the facilities open to others, then it would demonstrate not neutrality but hostility toward religion. “The Establishment Clause does not license government to treat religion and those who teach or practice it, simply by virtue of their status as such, as subversive of American ideals and therefore subject to unique disabilities.”

Id. at 248 (quoting McDaniel v. Paty, 435 U.S. 618, 641 (1978) (Brennan, J., concurring in judgment)).

Three factors determine whether school officials are compelled to recognize student religious clubs: 1) does the school receive any federal funds; 2) is the school a public secondary school as defined by state law (most states classify a secondary school as grades nine through twelve); and 3) does the school allow any non-curriculum clubs to meet on campus? If the answer to these questions is yes, then federal law compels school officials to provide equal access to students who want to organize and conduct Bible clubs and student prayer groups.

The crucial factor in triggering the Equal Access Act is whether a school district allows other non-curriculum clubs to meet on campus, a standard that the Supreme Court said should be “interpreted broadly” and provides a “low threshold” for trigging the Act’s protection. Mergens, 496 U.S. at 239-40. The Supreme Court has defined a “non-curriculum related student group” as “any student group that does not directly relate to the body of courses offered by the school.” Id. at 239. The Court also determined that a student group is curriculum-related

if the subject matter of the group is actually taught, or will soon be taught, in a regularly offered course; if the subject matter of the group concerns the body of courses as a whole; if participation in the group is required for a particular course; or if participation in the group results in academic credit.

Id. at 239-40. Thus, if such federally funded secondary schools permit non-curricular clubs such as Interact, Zonta, 4-H, Chess Club, and other service-type clubs to meet and hold events on campus, those schools must also permit Bible clubs and prayer groups to meet to the same extent.

Additionally, the Supreme Court held that student-initiated Bible Clubs or Prayer Groups must be given official recognition on campus in order to satisfy the Equal Access Act requirements. "Official recognition allows student clubs to be part of the student activities program and carries with it access to the school newspaper, bulletin boards, the public address system, and the annual Club Fair." Mergens, 496 U.S. at 247.

While these religious clubs must be student-initiated and run, Bible Clubs or Prayer Groups are not responsible to make sure the rest of the student body knows that the club is student-initiated; that is the responsibility of school officials. School officials are also prohibited from censoring the club’s speech by requiring them to delete references to Christianity from the club announcements and fliers.

School officials do not violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment by permitting this type of student activity. As the Mergens Court stated, “[T]here is a crucial difference between government speech endorsing religion, which the Establishment Clause forbids, and private speech endorsing religion, which the Free Speech and Free Exercise Clauses protect.” 496 U.S. at 250. Clearly, there is no church-state violation when school administrators allow students to meet together on campus.

The Equal Access Act imposes one difference in treatment between religious student groups and other clubs. The Act prohibits faculty or staff from serving in any role with religious student groups other than as a custodial monitor. In other words, the faculty/staff custodian of a religious group is present only to ensure that the group does not violate school policies or injure school property, not to participate in group activities.

As a result of the Supreme Court's holding in Mergens, schools must afford Bible Clubs or Prayer Groups the same privileges as other clubs on campus.

Besides having statutory rights under the Equal Access Act, students have a First Amendment right to hold student-initiated prayer club meetings on campus. It is well settled that religious speech is protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution. Widmar v. Vincent, 454 U.S. 263, 269 (1981) (citing Heffron v. International Society for Krishna Consciousness, Inc., 452 U.S. 640 (1981)); Niemotko v. Maryland, 340 U.S. 268 (1951). In fact, the right to persuade or advocate a religious viewpoint is one of the reasons the First Amendment was adopted.

In Tinker v. Des Moines Independent School District, a landmark decision involving First Amendment rights on public school campuses, the Supreme Court stated that "t can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate." 393 U.S. 506, 506 (1969). This means that students have First Amendment rights that cannot be denied "when [they are] in the cafeteria, or on the playing field, or on campus during the authorized hours." Id. at 512-13. In fact, school administrators can only prohibit student speech if it “‘materially and substantially interfere with appropriate discipline.’” Id. at 513 (quoting Burnside v. Byars, 363 F.2d 744, 749 (5th Cir. 1966)). Under this standard, a student-initiated and student-led Bible Club or Prayer Group is constitutional. Moreover, school administrators violate the Constitution if they forbid, censor, or inhibit the Bible Clubs or Prayer Groups in any manner.

It is imperative that school officials protect the Constitutional and statutory rights of students to initiate and participate in Bible Clubs or Prayer Groups. The ACLJ remains committed to defending the rights of students on their public school campus because, as the Supreme Court has stated, "The vigilant protection of constitutional freedoms is nowhere more vital than in the community of American schools." Shelton v. Tucker, 364 U.S. 479, 487 (1967).
 

RickN

Eye Bleach Salesman
Supporting Member
Special Hen Supporter
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
25,664
Reaction score
34,869
Location
Edmond
I remember one that depicted frank keatings head as the dome. I loved that one

Now that you mention it, I think I remember that one but I am not positive.

As for the original subject, they can put up any kind of monument they want. It shows tolerance for others beliefs. Heck put up one to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I will leave a bag of meatballs as an offering.
 

Danny Tanner

Sharpshooter
Special Hen
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
6,064
Reaction score
16
Location
Edmond, Oklahoma, United States
DT, you might have missed this one.

You said that a public school teacher leading a public school class in prayer does not break any rules and The Equal Access Act and Tinker v Des Moines schools have absolutely nothing to do with teacher-led prayer. They simply allow students their right to prayer (despite the claims that prayer isn't allowed in schools), which covers things like See You at the Pole.

Teacher-led prayers in public schools are unconstitutional. It's even unconstitutional for a teacher to suggest a student take lead in a classroom prayer.

I don't get it. When there's hints that the 2A is threatened, you stand up and shout, yet when the 1A is trampled, you're all thumbs up because this trampling coincides with your religious beliefs. The Constitution is not up for debate, it is not up for cherry picking. You're either on board or you're not. Take a seat or get off the bus.
 

BikerHT

Sharpshooter
Special Hen
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
1,052
Reaction score
41
Location
In the woods...between OKC & Tulsa
...Here's their website if you feel like taking a peek: http://americanhumanist.org/

From their website..."Founded in 1941 and located in Washington D.C., the American Humanist Association advocates progressive values and equality for humanists, atheists, freethinkers, and the non-religious."
And..."Our annual conference draws hundreds of humanists from across the U.S..."

Funny stuff, right there!
 

RickN

Eye Bleach Salesman
Supporting Member
Special Hen Supporter
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
25,664
Reaction score
34,869
Location
Edmond
You think Fox News is! :D :D :D

A lot more truth then most other sources. That has been proven by unbiased study after unbiased study. Yes they lean a little to the right but not really anymore then most legitimate sources lean to the left, and no where near as bad as MSNBC.
 

RickN

Eye Bleach Salesman
Supporting Member
Special Hen Supporter
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
25,664
Reaction score
34,869
Location
Edmond
You said that a public school teacher leading a public school class in prayer does not break any rules and The Equal Access Act and Tinker v Des Moines schools have absolutely nothing to do with teacher-led prayer. They simply allow students their right to prayer (despite the claims that prayer isn't allowed in schools), which covers things like See You at the Pole.

Teacher-led prayers in public schools are unconstitutional. It's even unconstitutional for a teacher to suggest a student take lead in a classroom prayer.

I don't get it. When there's hints that the 2A is threatened, you stand up and shout, yet when the 1A is trampled, you're all thumbs up because this trampling coincides with your religious beliefs. The Constitution is not up for debate, it is not up for cherry picking. You're either on board or you're not. Take a seat or get off the bus.

Again you are only seeing what you want. 1) I do not believe in any organized religion, never have. 2) The teacher can not lead the club, but they can take part. This is not a classroom we are talking about but a before school club that happens to meet in a classroom just like all the other clubs, which all have a teacher on hand too. Not to much happens at schools now days that does not have a teacher present.
 

PanhandleGlocker

Sharpshooter
Special Hen Banned
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
7,118
Reaction score
12,884
Location
Guymon, OK
A lot more truth then most other sources. That has been proven by unbiased study after unbiased study. Yes they lean a little to the right but not really anymore then most legitimate sources lean to the left, and no where near as bad as MSNBC.

I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that those unbiased studies were conducted my Fox News.
 

Danny Tanner

Sharpshooter
Special Hen
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
6,064
Reaction score
16
Location
Edmond, Oklahoma, United States
Again you are only seeing what you want. 1) I do not believe in any organized religion, never have. 2) The teacher can not lead the club, but they can take part. This is not a classroom we are talking about but a before school club that happens to meet in a classroom just like all the other clubs, which all have a teacher on hand too. Not to much happens at schools now days that does not have a teacher present.

I'm only seeing facts. Lawsuits were filed when unconstitutional acts were endorsed by public schools/officials.

1. That's fantastic, to each his own. It's your right to believe or not believe.
2. No, they can not. The Equal Access Act does not permit teachers to participate in the substantive religious discussions of a student religious group. The clubs must be both student-initiated and student-led. A teacher assigned by the school to attend meetings of an Equal Access Bible Club may attend only in a nonparticipatory capacity under the specific terms of the EAA per the DoJ website: http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/cor/byagency/ed4071.php

(b) ``Limited open forum'' defined

A public secondary school has a limited open forum whenever such
school grants an offering to or opportunity for one or more
noncurriculum related student groups to meet on school premises during
noninstructional time.


(c) Fair opportunity criteria

Schools shall be deemed to offer a fair opportunity to students who
wish to conduct a meeting within its limited open forum if such school
uniformly provides that--
(1) the meeting is voluntary and student-initiated;
(2) there is no sponsorship of the meeting by the school, the
government, or its agents or employees;
(3) employees or agents of the school or government are present
at religious meetings only in a nonparticipatory capacity
;

The public school teacher fired for leading a bible-study class within a public school, despite being before official school hours, was in direct violation of this act. Therefore, the consequences were justified.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom