How should CCW person handle a situation like this???

[Capm_Spaulding]

What you say when sitting on your arm chair vs what would happen in the moment are two different things sometimes. But unless it’s myself, my wife, or a select few immediate family members being attacked, I am not intervening with my weapon period.

If it’s a small child being savagely beaten, that’s the only other real situation I could see trying to step in, but I’m not pulling a weapon to do so unless my life becomes threatened in the process.

if it’s two adults, regardless of sex or stature, I look at it as I don’t know the back story, so I don’t know who’s actually attacking who or why. I think getting out of harms way and calling 911 is the best solution.

 

[bubbaturbo]

A long time ago in Memphis, my wife went into a "baby superstore" with my son in a stroller while I went into a computer store next door to get some floppy discs. A few minutes later, I followed them in and while looking for them, ended up at the back of the store where I saw something bizarre. A large man in jeans and a tee shirt was trying to take a woman's purse away from her. She would not let go of the strap and was being slung around on the floor, screaming, and she had wet her pants. About 8-10 people, including employees, were standing around watching but doing nothing. This was before CC licenses but at that time, you could sign up with the sheriff to be a "special deputy" and I was armed. Fortunately for me, I decided to find my wife and son and un-ass the place. On the way out, the same employee who had pulled the automatic doors open for me when I went in but said nothing to me, pulled them open for us on the way out (because they had been turned off to keep the woman from running out) and told us the guy was their store security and the woman was a suspected armed shoplifter.

I don't know why anyone else was allowed in after this started, I'm really glad I didn't try to intervene, and even though this was a nicer part of town at the time, I wish I had been smart enough to stay with my wife and son, especially since I was concerned enough to go to the trouble of getting the sheriff's permission to be armed.

 

[HFS]

Scenario 1: Situational awareness is critical. So are threat assessment and managing unknown contacts. I see that guy milling around looking suspect and I'm not approaching him. I'd probably either stay in the car with my doors locked, or keep my car between us and observe. Is he possibly armed? What's the apparent physical disparity? Avoiding the altercation is the best defense. If he gets inside your defenses for some reason, already have a plan. If that plan fails, have a secondary plan. If that plan fails, have a tertiary plan.

She had multiple opportunities to avoid or mitigate the unwanted contact. Once she was being grappled and then down is too late to be trying to draw a gun, because the likelihood of a takeaway is too great while he's still on her. The second he turns away from her and moves off, the threat is greatly reduced. He's already assaulted her once, so getting up and moving towards him is a really bad idea, unless she has a child in her car. If that's the case, yes get up/draw and issue verbal commands. Loudly alert others to call 911 because you've been attacked and your child is in danger. Only shoot if he makes it absolutely necessary.

Scenario 2: Call 911 and be a good witness, while preparing to defend yourself if necessary by seeking cover and reducing the risk to yourself. You have no idea whether this is a domestic dispute, a stranger attacking her or an undercover officer trying to apprehend her. By the time you could've physically intervened, he was moving away from her anyway. Now if she'd screamed that her child was in the car, you're going to have to make a choice as to whether you're going to play hero or not. Just know that there are a LOT of potential pitfalls there and act accordingly.

Agree situational awareness is key.
Others mileage may vary but I'm a big old chicken.
I won't drive a vehicle until it's absolutely running on fumes or drive on a long trip until my bladder is about to bust and feel I "have" to stop at a gas station right this second.
I try to take a good look around and will even circle the parking lot at a store before pulling up to a stop.
If I see something or somebody that looks out of place I'll go on down the street.

 

[gerhard1]

A long time ago in Memphis, my wife went into a "baby superstore" with my son in a stroller while I went into a computer store next door to get some floppy discs. A few minutes later, I followed them in and while looking for them, ended up at the back of the store where I saw something bizarre. A large man in jeans and a tee shirt was trying to take a woman's purse away from her. She would not let go of the strap and was being slung around on the floor, screaming, and she had wet her pants. About 8-10 people, including employees, were standing around watching but doing nothing. This was before CC licenses but at that time, you could sign up with the sheriff to be a "special deputy" and I was armed. Fortunately for me, I decided to find my wife and son and un-ass the place. On the way out, the same employee who had pulled the automatic doors open for me when I went in but said nothing to me, pulled them open for us on the way out (because they had been turned off to keep the woman from running out) and told us the guy was their store security and the woman was a suspected armed shoplifter.

I don't know why anyone else was allowed in after this started, I'm really glad I didn't try to intervene, and even though this was a nicer part of town at the time, I wish I had been smart enough to stay with my wife and son, especially since I was concerned enough to go to the trouble of getting the sheriff's permission to be armed.

This is a good example of why I advise caution in intervening. You just don't know what is what. Being a white knight can get your ass in a whole bunch of trouble and can also get an innocent person killed if a bystander intervenes on behalf of the bad guy all the while thinking that he or she is the innocent victim.

If you must do something, call 911 and tell them and let the cops handle it. That's their job, not yours.

 

[El Pablo]

Woman fights off attacker who tried to rob her at Alabama gas station

Police released surveillance video of the incident at the Chevron station in Mobile, Alabama, on Sunday and identified Brandon Young, 28, as the alleged assailant.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Let's say under two different scenarios:

1.) YOU are the person who is assaulted
2.) You witness the assault while pumping gas OR the assault is on someone you are with who went inside to get a drink

If you are one who would say you can't use CCW, let's say you are 55 and the guy is 28, OR you are 130lbs or a female and the guy is stronger, or you have a disability, etc.. Are you 'really" expected to fight the guy where he could get the upper hand and stomp your head or take your gun?

In my opinion, the moment he attacks, you should be legally allowed to draw and give verbal commands and prevent another attack by any means necessary. You should not have to square off against a stranger who may be able to kill you with bare hands and then be seen as executing an "unarmed person". Perhaps the key is what led up to the attack...if random, I know if I were on a jury that I would not expect someone to fight someone else who may be able to hurt them for the reasons mentioned above and more.

If I were suddenly female, I’d still be at home playing with my boobs, so attack avoided.

 

[sh00ter]

Okay guys, now what about this situation? Could you ram him or shoot him? OR are you supposed to just sit in your car and see what he wants to do to you without any response? (BTW, it looks like a hammer not an axe but it doesn't matter, still a weapon).

Furious road rage suspect hurls axe into another car's windshield

Dashcam video footage of the incident shows the suspect getting out of his Jeep and hurling an ax at the victim's windshield, before fleeing the scene near Seattle, Washington State.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[JD8]

Okay guys, now what about this situation? Could you ram him or shoot him? OR are you supposed to just sit in your car and see what he wants to do to you without any response? (BTW, it looks like a hammer not an axe but it doesn't matter, still a weapon).

Furious road rage suspect hurls axe into another car's windshield

Dashcam video footage of the incident shows the suspect getting out of his Jeep and hurling an ax at the victim's windshield, before fleeing the scene near Seattle, Washington State.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Not sure what you can do in this instance, he got out and threw an "axe" and got back in his vehicle. If he had approached and was trying to break the window/break in the vehicle then it would be different story.

 

[HFS]

Okay guys, now what about this situation? Could you ram him or shoot him? OR are you supposed to just sit in your car and see what he wants to do to you without any response? (BTW, it looks like a hammer not an axe but it doesn't matter, still a weapon).

Furious road rage suspect hurls axe into another car's windshield

Dashcam video footage of the incident shows the suspect getting out of his Jeep and hurling an ax at the victim's windshield, before fleeing the scene near Seattle, Washington State.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Was it a decent ax? Sorry about his windshield and all but at least he got a hand tool out of the deal.
Years ago I saw a guy stuck in traffic (dead of winter, windows rolled up) and another dude got out of his vehicle with a tire iron and was waving it around, threatening to kill the guy sitting in his car, who was calmly looking at him.
Road rage wasn't a thing back then.
The light went green and everybody went on down the street.

 

[JR777]

Lots of moving parts if the person being attacked is someone you do not know. I know it's a stretch, but what if he was a plain clothes police officer or federal agent and she was a violent felon that was known to be armed and dangerous, or any one of a thousand other possible scenarios.

If it's a loved one the decision gets a lot easier real quick.

Absolutely.

 

[JR777]

I completely agree with your assessment and evaluation, and that's the point I've been trying to make. But all of the Roy Rogers and Hopalong Cassidys on here are going to to "take him out" ! hahahaha

Their freedom their choice I guess. But I think the potential of mistaking the situation for something it's not is high enough that, legal considerations aside, it would just be immoral to kill someone for that, based on what a bystander would have known.

But even if you made a correct analysis, which would just be dumb luck because there wasn't enough information to go on, and shot him for attempted carjacking, it's still not a good shoot. Not enough means, motive, and opportunity. I.e. no weapon, his objective is to get the car keys not kill her, and with you having a gun he didn't really have an opportunity. By that I mean there's no real immediate danger to life or limb if you wait and analyze the situation, attempt non lethal means, etc. It's not like he could strangle her with his bare hands before you could draw and ventilate him.

And all that's not even mentioning the danger of trying to shoot him when he's on top of the victim and they're both rapidly moving, rolling around, going to ground and jumping back up. Even a skilled shooter would be risking shooting the victim. For the average person who carries, who shoots maybe 50 rounds a year, I would give it 80% he misses both of them, and the other 20% I would split between the dude and his victim.