Defense of property?

[Stephen Cue]

But defense of oneself is not considered to be a valid reason to carry a firearm upon your property outside the confines of your home. Pierce v State, 1929 OK CR 91, 42 Okl.Cr. 272, 275 P. 393

In short, as far as I can tell, the property provision of Article 2, § 26 has not been addressed directly.

Then whats the hold up, by all means address it, whats your opinion of the matter?

I feel I addressed the issue, twice. Just because Pierce was convicted back in the 20's under seriousy questionable circumstances does not mean I will change my stance on carrying firearms on my property.

 

[BigRed82]

The passage you quote from the constitution doesn't address the question you are asking. It deals with ownership of firearms. Your question is about use of deadly force. The right to keep and bear arms in defense of property does not = the right to shoot someone to protect your property. If someone is stealing your stuff and no life or bodily health is being threatened, you do not have a right to shoot the thief. You have the right to tell them to get off your property, and you have the right to call law enforcement. Unless they threaten someone's life with imminent death or serious bodily injury, you are not allowed to use deadly force.

 

[Stephen Cue]

The passage you quote from the constitution doesn't address the question you are asking. It deals with ownership of firearms. Your question is about use of deadly force. The right to keep and bear arms in defense of property does not = the right to shoot someone to protect your property. If someone is stealing your stuff and no life or bodily health is being threatened, you do not have a right to shoot the thief. You have the right to tell them to get off your property, and you have the right to call law enforcement. Unless they threaten someone's life with imminent death or serious bodily injury, you are not allowed to use deadly force.

Hey J,

Whats you opinion on carrying a firearms while telling the thief to get off your property and/or waiting for police? BTW, you're making me consider TU Law, not as prestigious as UT Law but carries a heftier price tag: $75k/3years, LOL.

 

[BigRed82]

Hey J,

Whats you opinion on carrying a firearms while telling the thief to get off your property and/or waiting for police? BTW, you're making me consider TU Law, not as prestigious as UT Law but carries a heftier price tag: $75k/3years, LOL.

Haha! Well, I wouldn't walk up to them with a Colt 6920 slung at the shoulder and ask that they leave. But yes, definitely I'd have a firearm on my person any time I would tell someone to get off my property. If it is your property, and they don't leave, you can't really do anything yourself other than call the cops, but since you've told them to get off, you can now sue them for trespassing. (just nominal fee, but it's the principle right!? lol)

False imprisonment is another thing that a CCW has to be mindful of before drawing his firearm. The bad guy better be threatening the life of someone before you draw your firearm, and there had better be a felony taking place before you tell him to do anything. Holding a guy at gunpoint for anything other than "imminent death or serious bodily harm" is false imprisonment. I would hate to see anyone on OSA misperceive a situation and think that they're getting attacked, only to end up in court with civil and/or criminal charges. When we choose to carry, we legally volunteer to be held to a much higher standard of personal responsibility than the average joe.

As to TU, I know a number of good attorneys/ADAs that went there - great school. The legal market is about as bad as the rest of the national economy, so good jobs are pretty few and far between right now. I would never want to discourage anyone from pursuing their dreams, but I'd make sure you want to read/write 24/7 and spend the rest of your life trying to pay off your loans before you jump in the water.

 

[Stephen Cue]

Haha! Well, I wouldn't walk up to them with a Colt 6920 slung at the shoulder and ask that they leave. But yes, definitely I'd have a firearm on my person any time I would tell someone to get off my property. If it is your property, and they don't leave, you can't really do anything yourself other than call the cops, but since you've told them to get off, you can now sue them for trespassing. (just nominal fee, but it's the principle right!? lol)

False imprisonment is another thing that a CCW has to be mindful of before drawing his firearm. The bad guy better be threatening the life of someone before you draw your firearm, and there had better be a felony taking place before you tell him to do anything. Holding a guy at gunpoint for anything other than "imminent death or serious bodily harm" is false imprisonment. I would hate to see anyone on OSA misperceive a situation and think that they're getting attacked, only to end up in court with civil and/or criminal charges. When we choose to carry, we legally volunteer to be held to a much higher standard of personal responsibility than the average joe.

As to TU, I know a number of good attorneys/ADAs that went there - great school. The legal market is about as bad as the rest of the national economy, so good jobs are pretty few and far between right now. I would never want to discourage anyone from pursuing their dreams, but I'd make sure you want to read/write 24/7 and spend the rest of your life trying to pay off your loans before you jump in the water.

I agree with the false imprisonent statements above.

For TU, I am just mulling it over, I may just go back to OU for a Masters in overthinking.

 

[ripnbst]

You all are skipping from a handshake to shooting someone. Take your firearm yes, but also take a big maglite. You tell a guy to stop breaking into your car and he disregards you grab him by the neck and pull him out of your car. Almost surely he will leave or come at you in which case you now escalate to the Maglite. If he draws a knife or firearm, like force with like force.

One of those Maglites with 3 or 4 D batteries is an awesome tool. All this new technology of small really bright flashlights has a place, but so does a flashlight that doubles as a blackjack. Naturally anyone would take a flashlight to investigate, just so happens its also a convenient weapon.

 

[twoguns?]

The bad guy better be threatening the life of someone before you draw your firearm, and there had better be a felony taking place before you tell him to do anything. Holding a guy at gunpoint for anything other than " A reasonable person to be in fear of death or great bodily harm"
Stealing my $xxx hundred stereo by ripping it out of the dash ...is... a felony
.
Oh ,my flashlight is at the end of my shotgun...
My first words will be .".you can run or stay...choose QUICKLY"....right after I thump him on the head with my ...flashlight

 

[Digger]

What if an individual is breaking into your car on the driveway of your home, you go out and hold him with your gun until the police arrive. Can you be arrested if you have not fired the gun?

 

[ripnbst]

From what my father told me who is retired LEO stealing things from an occupied area is a felony, one that is not occupied is not.

So if he is stealing your radio, and you are not in the car, its not a felony. If someone steals everything in your home and you are not there, it is not a felony.

If someone comes into your house, and steals a loaf of bread, and you are home. Its a felony.

If the car is in your driveway and you are in the home, I don't know where they draw the line on that one.

 

[MLR]

STATE CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISION
“The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense
of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil
power, when thereunto legally summoned, shall never be
prohibited, but nothing herein contained shall prevent
the legislature from regulating the carrying of weapons.”
Article 2, Section 26.

The passage you quote from the constitution doesn't address the question you are asking. It deals with ownership of firearms. Your question is about use of deadly force. The right to keep and bear arms in defense of property does not = the right to shoot someone to protect your property. If someone is stealing your stuff and no life or bodily health is being threatened, you do not have a right to shoot the thief. You have the right to tell them to get off your property, and you have the right to call law enforcement. Unless they threaten someone's life with imminent death or serious bodily injury, you are not allowed to use deadly force.

Why would the people who wrote this article say you have a right to bear arms in defense of property if they really meant you could only ask them to leave or to call for help. I don't need a weapon to do either of those things.

Michael