Or Israel has a better Propaganda machine. It makes so much sense for Palestinians to blow up theyre own Power plants, schools, hospitals, shops, houses, apartments, bridges, shelters, beachs, ect. And blame Israel.
Or Israel has a better Propaganda machine. It makes so much sense for Palestinians to blow up theyre own Power plants, schools, hospitals, shops, houses, apartments, bridges, shelters, beachs, ect. And blame Israel.
Where else should they set them up? A tent on the beach?? Open desert? Previous targeted building? Previously targeted homes? Previously targeted markets?
If you condone this philosophy and practice, then don't whine when it gets hit.
Yep - if you're going to start rabble rousing in a church, don't complain if it gets bombed, right?
Yes, clearly Israel has the superior propaganda machine. All I ever hear on any respected news source are stories about the milk of human kindness that is Israel.
See below.
That is not even close to what we are talking about.
Look, Lurker and TK. You are both are smart guys with more wisdom than than most. You are among several members who I pay attention to; especially when we disagree, because it gives me pause and forces me to consider my position closely. I want to understand why you have those positions because it makes me think I may be missing something important. It is easy to just dismiss people who believe differently than me, but it is seldom the right path.
No, Im not being facetious or sarcastic.
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Speaking of propaganda.....
UMB -
I stated before that I went to church for years and heard about how wonderful Israel is, and how they are occupying land that is rightfully theirs, they are hated by all because they are God's chosen, etc....
When I started smellin' BS and asking questions, I got kind of the same response as I have here, because we all know who the good guys are and the bad guys are.
Then I started reading a little, then a lot, from sources other than the usual pro-Israel slant we get here. In short, I looked at the history of the "creation" of Israel objectively, and some of the history from more recent years. I suggested earlier in this thread that some may want to read "Perfidy", a book about the capture and trial of Adolph Eichman. Unfortunate for the ones that would whitewash modern Israel's history, there were some interesting facts revealed at his trial, concerning the alliance between Zionists and Nazis. "51 Documents" by Lenny Brenner is another book dedicated to the beginnings of our ally.
When the Soviets supplied arms for the Jews to take over Palestine, (yes, it was the Soviets, not us - where do you think the Israeli K98s came from?) it was only after years of terrorism by the Zionists, not Palestinians.
A quick read of the Balfour Declaration, and virtually all of the documents ganting Jews a homeland in Palestine (prior to 1947) stipulated that the residents already there (which included Arabs and Jews) would not be displaced.
The current residents of Gaza have a crappy situation, surely we can agree on that - and many have known nothing of life except for being penned in, relying on outside sources for basic necessities. Their families still hold title to housing, farms etc...prior to being pushed out. Are they extremists? Of course.
When a half dozen Palestinians get shot while throwing rocks at Israelis, it's not headline news. When Israel bulldozes existing homes, and expands settlements, the US does nothing. When a US citizen is bulldozed, killed on camera protesting the expansion, nothing happens.
I have no problem with folks who think they've picked the right side sending their money and support to Israel, I just wish our country would shed itself of the relationship.
I stated before that I went to church for years and heard about how wonderful Israel is, and how they are occupying land that is rightfully theirs, they are hated by all because they are God's chosen, etc....
When I started smellin' BS and asking questions, I got kind of the same response as I have here, because we all know who the good guys are and the bad guys are.
Then I started reading a little, then a lot, from sources other than the usual pro-Israel slant we get here. In short, I looked at the history of the "creation" of Israel objectively, and some of the history from more recent years. I suggested earlier in this thread that some may want to read "Perfidy", a book about the capture and trial of Adolph Eichman. Unfortunate for the ones that would whitewash modern Israel's history, there were some interesting facts revealed at his trial, concerning the alliance between Zionists and Nazis. "51 Documents" by Lenny Brenner is another book dedicated to the beginnings of our ally.
When the Soviets supplied arms for the Jews to take over Palestine, (yes, it was the Soviets, not us - where do you think the Israeli K98s came from?) it was only after years of terrorism by the Zionists, not Palestinians.
A quick read of the Balfour Declaration, and virtually all of the documents ganting Jews a homeland in Palestine (prior to 1947) stipulated that the residents already there (which included Arabs and Jews) would not be displaced.
The current residents of Gaza have a crappy situation, surely we can agree on that - and many have known nothing of life except for being penned in, relying on outside sources for basic necessities. Their families still hold title to housing, farms etc...prior to being pushed out. Are they extremists? Of course.
When a half dozen Palestinians get shot while throwing rocks at Israelis, it's not headline news. When Israel bulldozes existing homes, and expands settlements, the US does nothing. When a US citizen is bulldozed, killed on camera protesting the expansion, nothing happens.
I have no problem with folks who think they've picked the right side sending their money and support to Israel, I just wish our country would shed itself of the relationship.
The reason I speak out isnt because Im a fan of Hamas, Muslims or Palestinians. Honestly I think our tie to Israel is because of Isreals relationship to Christianity, not because its some kind of Ally or a Democracy or some form of Govt we support. God is gonna judge us as individuals. ..not whether we supported "his" chosen people.
I think every Nation has a right to self defense, Gaza included, as well as Israel. I remember when Hamas, PLO and Islamic Jihad were all considered illegitimate Terrorist Organizations. The media and our(Israel/US) propaganda machines portrayed them.
Arrafat was once a Leader of a movement(PLO), which was labeled as a terrorist organization. The PLO evolved from a quasi terrorist organization to electing leaders and forming a Govt party......Hamas has done the same thing. Its not for us to say who the Palestinian's elect or nominate to represent them.
Hamas is like a political party, yet they are also seen as defenders of Palastinians. They also do a lot of good for Palastinians, teach, build schools, clinics, hospitals. ...things terrorists dont do btw.
I also see Gaza as a giant refugee camp, living conditions are very similar. I expect Hamas/Palastinians to fight......remember all the old footage on the news, showing men and boys throwing rocks and using slings to harrass the well armed and organized IDF??
Well today they went from chunkin rocks to launching "Dumb" rockets. Rockets that aint much more effective than our fireworks. Yet they are battleing an Army similar to ours. The score is about 1100 to 35. Thats overkill in my book.
So if 1,100 to 35 is overkill, that means the Palestinians have stopped firing rockets and are begging for a cease fire, right? 
I just don't care about the church or the relationship between Judaism and Christianity. I just don't care. I don't care about the Balfour Declaration from over a half century ago or the Judenrats who collaborated with the Nazis. If you asked the Palestinians in Palestine about the Balfour Declaration, they would look at you like a three eyed alien.
The PLO became a legitimate governing body when they stopped committing terrorist acts and came to the table. Hamas COULD do the same, but they won't. Hamas is a terrorist organization, committed to continuing their ongoing attacks against Israel and they refuse to call for anything less than the complete destruction of Israel as a nation. I don't care if they hand out candy to little kids in the street and pay money to the families of dead "martyrs", they are terrorists. They spend far more money and effort towards the destruction of their mortal enemies than their own people.
Lest anyone forget, the Palestinian people wanted this. They ousted the PLO and put Hamas in charge. They knew what they were getting when they did this.
What we have is a crime. Hamas has motive, intent and opportunity to commit lethal attacks against Israel. They have done exactly this. It's easy to sit back in your chair a half a world away and condemn the Israelies for their "disproportionate" response. If your next door neighbor were acting like Hamas towards you, you'd change your tune.
I just don't care about the church or the relationship between Judaism and Christianity. I just don't care. I don't care about the Balfour Declaration from over a half century ago or the Judenrats who collaborated with the Nazis. If you asked the Palestinians in Palestine about the Balfour Declaration, they would look at you like a three eyed alien.
The PLO became a legitimate governing body when they stopped committing terrorist acts and came to the table. Hamas COULD do the same, but they won't. Hamas is a terrorist organization, committed to continuing their ongoing attacks against Israel and they refuse to call for anything less than the complete destruction of Israel as a nation. I don't care if they hand out candy to little kids in the street and pay money to the families of dead "martyrs", they are terrorists. They spend far more money and effort towards the destruction of their mortal enemies than their own people.
Lest anyone forget, the Palestinian people wanted this. They ousted the PLO and put Hamas in charge. They knew what they were getting when they did this.
What we have is a crime. Hamas has motive, intent and opportunity to commit lethal attacks against Israel. They have done exactly this. It's easy to sit back in your chair a half a world away and condemn the Israelies for their "disproportionate" response. If your next door neighbor were acting like Hamas towards you, you'd change your tune.
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