My children do not get vaccinated

[caojyn]

[video][/video]

 

[JD8]

A little insight about Deisher. She's off the reservation to say the least.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/08/24/more-horrible-antivaccine-science-from-theresa-deisher/

 

[sh00ter]

What I'm saying is... what you don't realize is that we DO have safe vaccines. We have the best that has been able to be made by some really really smart people - like, orders of magnitude smarter than you or me. It sounds to me like what you want is a TOTALLY safe vaccine - as in, one that has ZERO side effects, ZERO complications and is 100% effective.

Great! Guess what? So do the people who are making them. They're trying... but you go ahead and bash them all you want, because it is obvious you don't understand the basic concepts. To me, anyways. I also support your right to choose. That's fine. But you get to live with the consequences if you choose wrongly, too, just as I do.

I understand what you are saying. But it doesn't change the fact that where there is risk, there must be individual choice. When you historically look at all the prescription drug/vaccine issues, any sane person would take note. In order to get them to invest further in safer technology, we have to shine light on it. Right now, there are plenty of people to run cover and shut down any legitimate points or questions. If there was TRUE "informed consent" like is required by law, then I can assure you that the drug company/CDC would have no choice but to acknowledge and work harder to develop safer vaccines.

But as long as it is illegal to sue them, there is not real informed consent taking place, and anyone who asks questions or points out past/present problems with vaccines is silenced, then what real motivation do "they" have to improve things. I just showed you earlier in this thread a congressman testifying on the house floor about an internal coverup within the CDC concerning the MMR vaccine. That data showed up to a 384% increased risk for autism spectrum side effects; it was thrown in a garbage can. If you are an intellectually honest person, (now is your chance to prove that), doesn't that bother you as a parent and an American citizen trusting your governemnt to ensure your safety? Hence, the Constitution guarantees LIBERTY, not safety...you must do some due diligence and shine light on problems to get them solved.

My main point is just the mandate though...we can debate the facts on both sides of the argument, but what really matters is that I can't vote to make you do something that evidence suggests carries some personal medical risk. Surely you'd also agree with that? Thankfully the good conservatives in Oklahoma believe this way; the RINOs/Liberals are the control freaks chasing problems that statistically don't even exist.

A little insight about Deisher. She's off the reservation to say the least.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/08/24/more-horrible-antivaccine-science-from-theresa-deisher/

YES, when your mind is made up, you must discredit anyone who questions the status quo...it is atactic that is rooted in the old Soviet Union. This is one of many GM...maybe she is nuts, I don't know...but I know that DNA fragments from other humans are not meant to be injected into us. I know that the drug companies publish the known side effects. I know that SV40 is real...etc...in order for you to gain any credibility, you must also acknowledge the problems that exist...if you are intellectually honest, you CAN be pro vaccine and still question things case-by-case.

 

[JD8]

YES, when your mind is made up, you must discredit anyone who questions the status quo...it is atactic that is rooted in the old Soviet Union. This is one of many GM...maybe she is nuts, I don't know...but I know that DNA fragments from other humans are not meant to be injected into us. .

Yeah yeah I get it... you don't have background to dispel anything I say legitimately so you compare me to socialist. It's a sign of weak argument. YOU do understand what strawman is? Yes?

Here's why I say this is moot. You just can dumb down a complex issue to people that aren't educated in science. I guess you missed this whole part of the article?

Said particles would have to...

• Find its way to the brain in significant quantities.

• Make it into the neurons in the brain in significant quantities.

• Make it into the nucleus of the neurons in significant quantities.

• Undergo homologous recombination at a detectable level, resulting in either the alteration of a cell surface protein or the expression of a foreign cell surface protein that the immune system can recognize.

• Undergo homologous recombination in many neurons in such a way that results in the neurons having cell surface protein(s) altered sufficiently to be recognized as foreign.

• That’s leaving aside the issue of whether autoimmunity in the brain or chronic brain inflammation is even a cause of autism, which is by no means settled by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, quite the opposite. It’s not at all clear whether the markers of inflammation sometimes reported in the brains of autistic children are a cause, a consequence, or merely an epiphenomenon of autism.

In other words, this hypothesis is incredibly implausible on the basis of what we know about molecular biology and human biology.

Can't have your cake and eat it too my friend. Either you follow what we know, can prove, and what WAS the basis of her previous research.... or she lays down a shred of proof for her hypothesis. Hell I'd be happy if you could even discuss said issues I just laid out on a critical level.

 

[sh00ter]

A little insight about Deisher. She's off the reservation to say the least.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/08/24/more-horrible-antivaccine-science-from-theresa-deisher/

Yeah yeah I get it... you don't have background to dispel anything I say legitimately so you compare me to socialist. It's a sign of weak argument. YOU do understand what strawman is? Yes?

Here's why I say this is moot. You just can dumb down a complex issue to people that aren't educated in science. I guess you missed this whole part of the article?

Said particles would have to...

• Find its way to the brain in significant quantities.

• Make it into the neurons in the brain in significant quantities.

• Make it into the nucleus of the neurons in significant quantities.

• Undergo homologous recombination at a detectable level, resulting in either the alteration of a cell surface protein or the expression of a foreign cell surface protein that the immune system can recognize.

• Undergo homologous recombination in many neurons in such a way that results in the neurons having cell surface protein(s) altered sufficiently to be recognized as foreign.

• That’s leaving aside the issue of whether autoimmunity in the brain or chronic brain inflammation is even a cause of autism, which is by no means settled by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, quite the opposite. It’s not at all clear whether the markers of inflammation sometimes reported in the brains of autistic children are a cause, a consequence, or merely an epiphenomenon of autism.

In other words, this hypothesis is incredibly implausible on the basis of what we know about molecular biology and human biology.

Can't have your cake and eat it too my friend. Either you follow what we know, can prove, and what WAS the basis of her previous research.... or she lays down a shred of proof for her hypothesis. Hell I'd be happy if you could even discuss said issues I just laid out on a critical level.

I'm sure that was a quick copy/paste from a pro-vax site. If so, I think I'm making progress that you/they would even acknowledge the use of aborted fetal cells to make vaccines. Just like GMO, organic food, etc., we will eventually win...mad cow disease came from cows eating cows...now they want to put human genes in rice your kids eat...I take from pasts posts, that you are non-religious which influences your positions heavily. But from my perspective, there will always be consequences when man tries to play God.

I still support your right to take as many vaccines as you please, and to have whatever opinions you wish under the 1st Amendment. Us trying to convince each other is moot so we can agree on that, but I think objective folks that read this will see that I "attempt" to be fair and do more to acknowledge "your side". Again, I like the idea of medical & vaccine technology but I just want it to be developed for the right reasons, not seen as infallible, and finally REMAIN A CHOICE...at least under the current circumstances. All this informative debate between us is a side-note to the fact where there is risk, there must be choice if we truly live in a free Republic.

I respect your position and I know how bad you want there to be nothing bad about vaccines...I want that too

 

[DRC458]

Let's see ...

I'm not gonna' drive again until they make the perfect car/truck
I'm not gonna' fly again until they make the perfect airplane
I'm not gonna' eat beef again until they make the perfect cow
I'm not gonna' drink milk again ... ditto
I'm not gonna' eat chicken again until ...
I'm not gonna' eat eggs again until ...
I'm not gonna' drink beer again until ...

Now, WAIT JUST A DAMN MINUTE!!!!!

 

[sh00ter]

Let's see ...

I'm not gonna' drive again until they make the perfect car/truck
I'm not gonna' fly again until they make the perfect airplane
I'm not gonna' eat beef again until they make the perfect cow
I'm not gonna' drink milk again ... ditto
I'm not gonna' eat chicken again until ...
I'm not gonna' eat eggs again until ...
I'm not gonna' drink beer again until ...

Now, WAIT JUST A DAMN MINUTE!!!!!

Have you had 100% of your adult immunizations & booster shots?

I love how seemingly some of the biggest advocates of vaccine choice are people that mocked others until "OMG, it happened to them" and then all of the sudden they become an activist. As long as things are fine in your world, that's all that matters...I get it...but DO NOT encroach on mine, that's the point. Most people that think vaccines are infallible are still for choice on principle. Hopefully you are too; thankfully the good conservative OK legislature agrees.

I have made my contribution to this thread and hopefully some less-vocal, but open-minded members who saw it may have something new to look in to now. Debating the vaccines themselves is a separate issue than a mandate but I always come back to that. I support your right to inject whatever you choose; I'm more focused on mandates. Control freaks & tyrants have been around since the beginning of time...they are a much worse disease than the measles.

 

[DRC458]

Have you had 100% of your adult immunizations & booster shots?

I love how seemingly some of the biggest advocates of vaccine choice are people that mocked others until "OMG, it happened to them" and then all of the sudden they become an activist. As long as things are fine in your world, that's all that matters...I get it...but DO NOT encroach on mine, that's the point. Most people that think vaccines are infallible are still for choice on principle. Hopefully you are too; thankfully the good conservative OK legislature agrees.

I have made my contribution to this thread and hopefully some less-vocal, but open-minded members who saw it may have something new to look in to now. Debating the vaccines themselves is a separate issue than a mandate but I always come back to that. I support your right to inject whatever you choose; I'm more focused on mandates. Control freaks & tyrants have been around since the beginning of time...they are a much worse disease than the measles.

And, you entirely miss the point. If you wait on the "perfect" ANYTHING, you will accomplish nothing. No, vaccines are not perfect or infallible, and never will be. Neither will anything else. Yes, you make your CHOICES based on your opinion taking into account the best information available. Make your choice ... move on ... let the next person make theirs. BUT, nothing excuses you from taking responsibility for those choices.

 

[dennishoddy]

Have you had 100% of your adult immunizations & booster shots?

I have and my children have and my grandchildren have. You never answered my questions a couple pages ago. An answer to those questions would provide some incite to your knowledge of the pharmaceutical industry and how it works in conjunction with the medical industry.

 

[Isha's Pa Pa]

Careful, they might catch the autism.

That's a good one !