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The Water Cooler
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Antifa vs. Alt-Right
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<blockquote data-quote="mugsy" data-source="post: 3021999" data-attributes="member: 18914"><p>What we are really suffering from is a serious amount of over-reaction to a relatively small extremely isolated, in political terms, loose agglomeration of extremists. </p><p>The old Neo-Nazis of Skokie, IL fame could routinely (for a little while) turn out bigger groups. America once prided itself that those marchers - regardless of what one thought of their views - could speak their ideas and would be countered by other, hopefully better, ideas. Free speech was the principle we really cherished, even speech we hated, yet, nowadays we seem to have devolved to where we believe that Free "approved or politically correct" speech is all we care about - which really means we don't care about free speech very much, at least not as much as we care about making sure only what we like is heard.</p><p></p><p>Heck, one poster in this thread even derided "Fee Speech" as just a canard - that is a sad and shameful position for any American to hold. I don't like these neo-Nazis, I didn't like the ones in Skokie either, but my liking or disliking them is irrelevant. I also don't like ninja-outfitted Anti-FA (anti First Amendment) thugs and Black Nationalists/Separatists but that doesn't mean I want their right to speak suppressed. Counter lies, distortions, and hate with truth, and with evident respect for the principles we enshrine in our Constitution not with more hate. Now, that all applies to speech/peaceful protest only - no one, regardless of their political position has the right to injure or attack (real physical injury not the contention that "words injure") others whether to make their own point or prevent the other from speaking. Anyone who does that has crossed a line and is now a criminal who needs to be treated as such. But also keep in mind that this is still America we don't (or shouldn't) engage in group condemnations simply because some individual has committed a reprehensible act. This is a challenging problem both personally, at least for me and I assume for many others, and for us as a nation.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mugsy, post: 3021999, member: 18914"] What we are really suffering from is a serious amount of over-reaction to a relatively small extremely isolated, in political terms, loose agglomeration of extremists. The old Neo-Nazis of Skokie, IL fame could routinely (for a little while) turn out bigger groups. America once prided itself that those marchers - regardless of what one thought of their views - could speak their ideas and would be countered by other, hopefully better, ideas. Free speech was the principle we really cherished, even speech we hated, yet, nowadays we seem to have devolved to where we believe that Free "approved or politically correct" speech is all we care about - which really means we don't care about free speech very much, at least not as much as we care about making sure only what we like is heard. Heck, one poster in this thread even derided "Fee Speech" as just a canard - that is a sad and shameful position for any American to hold. I don't like these neo-Nazis, I didn't like the ones in Skokie either, but my liking or disliking them is irrelevant. I also don't like ninja-outfitted Anti-FA (anti First Amendment) thugs and Black Nationalists/Separatists but that doesn't mean I want their right to speak suppressed. Counter lies, distortions, and hate with truth, and with evident respect for the principles we enshrine in our Constitution not with more hate. Now, that all applies to speech/peaceful protest only - no one, regardless of their political position has the right to injure or attack (real physical injury not the contention that "words injure") others whether to make their own point or prevent the other from speaking. Anyone who does that has crossed a line and is now a criminal who needs to be treated as such. But also keep in mind that this is still America we don't (or shouldn't) engage in group condemnations simply because some individual has committed a reprehensible act. This is a challenging problem both personally, at least for me and I assume for many others, and for us as a nation. [/QUOTE]
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