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The Water Cooler
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Deputy assigned to Florida school 'never went in' during shooting, sheriff says
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<blockquote data-quote="Dave70968" data-source="post: 3086379" data-attributes="member: 13624"><p>I agree that it's a hard job, but it's an all-volunteer force. If he doesn't want to face that possibility, he could have become a plumber. He sure was quick to defend the perks of the school assignment, though (like free rent and utilities).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Good question, but it's the wrong standard of judgment. He wasn't a regular Joe; he was a sworn police officer. Even off-duty, he's held to higher standards. In this case, he wasn't even off-duty.</p><p></p><p>By way of example: if, Joe Citizen, come across someone having a heart attack and try to give CPR, as long as I do so to "regular Joe" standards, I'm protected. If <em>you</em> do, as a medical professional, you'll be held to the standards of your training and profession, even off-duty and outside your hospital.</p><p></p><p>Peterson, judged by the standards of his profession, just plain sucks.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There are other concerns here, too. You didn't see the situation unfold, so you're going in blind; that's different from being there and acting in defense of something you understand. The police go in blind, too, but at least they have <em>some</em> idea from the 911 calls, and have communication with each other. As mentioned below, there's a good chance of you making the situation <em>worse</em> by going in without coordinating with the people in charge, and a <em>very</em> good chance of you getting shot yourself. "First, do no harm" applies here as well as in medicine; I'd say the answer depends very much on the situation, and we don't have enough details to do more than spitball on that one.</p><p></p><p>The officer had a duty, though, and had the tools (not just his gun, but also his radio) and training to do it. Joe Citizen, not so much.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>For Johnny Law, there <em>is</em> a manual, and it gets updated from time to time. This one was updated in 1999 after the Columbine shooting; it says, generally, "get in there, don't wait for SWAT." I don't know the specifics of Broward County Sheriff's manual, but his statements seem to support that Peterson wasn't following it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nope. Qualified immunity: government agents generally enjoy personal immunity for things done in the course of their employment. The department <em>might</em> be on the hook for damages, but probably not even that--several cases have shown that there's no duty of protection toward individual plaintiffs, just society as a whole. The only way I can see liability accruing is as mentioned above, through Peterson's failure to share information that could have prevented the threat from coming to fruition and perhaps other policy violations, and even that's a stretch, I think.</p><p></p><p>Real professionals (doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, plumbers, electricians...basically the rest of the world) are responsible for their foulups, either personally or through their employers (often both). Government agents are almost unique in enjoying personal immunity; the official reason for that, believe it or not, is to attract "the best and the brightest." No kidding.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Exactly. I'm not decrying the ones who actually <em>did</em> rush in, who did their duties. I'm decrying the one who <em>did</em> intentionally sign up, then took up a defensive position and waited for several minutes cowering in safety while the people (generally) he was sworn to protect died defenseless.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See NikatKimber immediately below.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This. Even if he knew he was up against a rifle, he still had a duty to act. He also had initiative and (probably) the element of surprise. Even if the best he could do was get to a position where he could lay down suppressive fire until the "big guns" <em>did</em> show up, that would have been something. It might have reduced the body count, anyway.</p><p></p><p>Instead, he chose to listen to kids die so he could make it to retirement.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dave70968, post: 3086379, member: 13624"] I agree that it's a hard job, but it's an all-volunteer force. If he doesn't want to face that possibility, he could have become a plumber. He sure was quick to defend the perks of the school assignment, though (like free rent and utilities). Good question, but it's the wrong standard of judgment. He wasn't a regular Joe; he was a sworn police officer. Even off-duty, he's held to higher standards. In this case, he wasn't even off-duty. By way of example: if, Joe Citizen, come across someone having a heart attack and try to give CPR, as long as I do so to "regular Joe" standards, I'm protected. If [I]you[/I] do, as a medical professional, you'll be held to the standards of your training and profession, even off-duty and outside your hospital. Peterson, judged by the standards of his profession, just plain sucks. There are other concerns here, too. You didn't see the situation unfold, so you're going in blind; that's different from being there and acting in defense of something you understand. The police go in blind, too, but at least they have [I]some[/I] idea from the 911 calls, and have communication with each other. As mentioned below, there's a good chance of you making the situation [I]worse[/I] by going in without coordinating with the people in charge, and a [I]very[/I] good chance of you getting shot yourself. "First, do no harm" applies here as well as in medicine; I'd say the answer depends very much on the situation, and we don't have enough details to do more than spitball on that one. The officer had a duty, though, and had the tools (not just his gun, but also his radio) and training to do it. Joe Citizen, not so much. For Johnny Law, there [I]is[/I] a manual, and it gets updated from time to time. This one was updated in 1999 after the Columbine shooting; it says, generally, "get in there, don't wait for SWAT." I don't know the specifics of Broward County Sheriff's manual, but his statements seem to support that Peterson wasn't following it. Nope. Qualified immunity: government agents generally enjoy personal immunity for things done in the course of their employment. The department [I]might[/I] be on the hook for damages, but probably not even that--several cases have shown that there's no duty of protection toward individual plaintiffs, just society as a whole. The only way I can see liability accruing is as mentioned above, through Peterson's failure to share information that could have prevented the threat from coming to fruition and perhaps other policy violations, and even that's a stretch, I think. Real professionals (doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, plumbers, electricians...basically the rest of the world) are responsible for their foulups, either personally or through their employers (often both). Government agents are almost unique in enjoying personal immunity; the official reason for that, believe it or not, is to attract "the best and the brightest." No kidding. Exactly. I'm not decrying the ones who actually [I]did[/I] rush in, who did their duties. I'm decrying the one who [I]did[/I] intentionally sign up, then took up a defensive position and waited for several minutes cowering in safety while the people (generally) he was sworn to protect died defenseless. See NikatKimber immediately below. This. Even if he knew he was up against a rifle, he still had a duty to act. He also had initiative and (probably) the element of surprise. Even if the best he could do was get to a position where he could lay down suppressive fire until the "big guns" [I]did[/I] show up, that would have been something. It might have reduced the body count, anyway. Instead, he chose to listen to kids die so he could make it to retirement. [/QUOTE]
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