Gun observations

[blutch]

These are some observations I made while shooting my very first IPSCA match on Saturday. The most important observation I made was that I don't know much. I am so grateful for all the patient and kind people here and at the match who have helped me to be more informed.

I was made quite wide-eyed by all of the equipment at this match. I will start another thread discussing some of the accessories, but would like to discuss the guns I saw.

I saw some very very expensive guns being run at this match. Really tricked out, powerful and fast guns with all sorts of bells and whistles. I'm naturally a "gear" guy, so I'm interested in learning a lot more about this stuff. I've been this way with every hobby I've been "in to" in my life - golf, archery, fly fishing, etc...

The thing that surprised me was the frequency at which these very expensive guns malfunctioned. Almost every one of the "high-end" guns and some of the average guns (mine included) had some kind of issue throughout the day.

I'm not sure how much of this was "user error" and how much of it was unreliable equipment.. that's what I'd like to learn. My gun jammed for the first time since I've owned it, but I'm convinced this was user error due to newbie incompetence.

Now, I fully realize that my experience may be atypical. I'd be interested to hear those of you who are involved in this activity speak to this issue if you are so inclined.

Thanks

B

 

[Ignored Member]

i went to one of those 3-gun matches a while back, it was the first time i've gone to any matches and i was pretty surprised about some of the equipment out there myself. i've been wondering where the shotgun shell carriers were bought at. they looked like a plastic piece that clipped onto the belt held 6 shells horizontally.

 

[Old Fart]

Back when I could still shoot competitively I always shot stock revolver.
Very rarely had a malfunction. Now the guys back then that shot the tricked out race guns seemed almost always one of them would have issues, but usually not to big of deal. I think the equiptment now days is probably much more reliable. Also there's a lot more stuff out there to chose from today also. Be smart and take your time picking out enhancements. See which seem to work the best. Over the past 5 or 10 years I've become more interested in the optics available today. These new red dots are awesome for an old fart. Point and shoot.

 

[KurtM]

Most "high end" gun problems are due to the owner not the gun. A good many of them, don't clean and oil, strip and clean magazines. Some don't even know how to feild strip their own firearm, and if they reload, they never check them before the match to see if all of them chamber. The guns you see working like an atomic clock, get a good amount of oil and good ammo. There are quite a few "drivers", and few mechanics. true of everything! My High end guns work and do so pretty much all the time, but then again I do all the work on them.

RobarG19, If you want shell caddies (that is what they are called) for your shotgun ammo I recomend Choate Machine and Tool. They make the best ones. I don't think they are in their catalog any longer, but just call and ask for them they have them. I think they are around $20.00 apeice. Another kind is made by Choate Machine for California Competition Works...however they are made for 3" shell and for regular use you need a spacer or the 2 3/4 shells will fall out while moving. KurtM

 

[technetium-99m]

The wide 1911's I think you're talking about weak spot are the mags, you need good ones and they can be pricey. I never thought I would spend 100+ on a single magazine.

As far as modifications etc., pick a division and build a gun to suit it, the arms race is more or less over, the competitive combos are known at this point. Production is a little different, Glocks are probably most prominent, are they the best gun, I think that can be debated. Look at Ben Stoeger, he has done really well with a Beretta, and I bet Max is going to start really cleaning up with his Sigs.

With any division pick your pistol, load or buy quality ammo, chamber check your ammo, get quality supporting gear, and practice a lot.

Listen to Kurt, the man knows what he's talking about. Maybe with 10,000 more rounds my 2011 can be worthy of atomic clock status.

 

[Glocktogo]

Kurt hit the nail on the head. Shooting competition puts a lot of stress on your gear. There's nothing short of combat or an intensive multi-day class that will sort out your gear like shooting matches. Where matches excel is that shooting them often enough will put you and your gun through exercises you wouldn't otherwise encounter. This sorts the wheat from the chaff so to speak.

Many of the high end guns you saw are mission built to shoot matches. They can be demanding and finicky if you don't know how to maintain them. They have very tight tolerances and chambers for serious accuracy potential and extreme repeatabilty. But those features come with a price, constant vigilance in care and feeding. Fail to pay attention to those needs and they'll reward you with a malfunction.

Service grade guns cannot expect to equal that level of performance, but their looser tolerances mean they're more able to shrug off bad ammo and infrequent maintenance. You don't have a Honda Accord serviced every day or use racing fuel like a Honda Formula 1 car, but an Accord isn't going to go 220 mph either.

A good shooter can win matches if their gear cooperates. A true operator knows their gear inside and out, and knows it will work. This allows them to win matches more consistently. They spend the time and trouble to know how the gun works and why they fail. They often go on to build their own or at least be farmiliar with armorer level mechanics so they can make repairs and adjustments on the fly.

Ammunition is a critical component. Almost everyone competing at the top level reloads to cut cost and to make custom tuned ammo. It's amazing how many will use the cheapest components or fail to QC check their match ammo. I never use anything in a match that isn't rigorously inspected and case guaged first. You can use anything in practice, but it's match shooting 101 to bring at least decent quality ammo on race day.

I've been shooting competitively for over 10 years now and my equipment rarely ever malfunctions. I've yet to shoot a match where I had to go home with a DNF (Did Not Finish), because I consider that the ultimate failure. It's simply not an option in my book. No matter how good you are or how much you spend, you can't win if you don't make it through the course.

 

[blutch]

GTG - So... QC ammo - chamber check ammo? I've never heard of this.. do you literally run every round through the chamber to see if it ejects? I'm confused about this one. Does anyone who shoots production do this? Is it common?

Thanks to everyone for the detailed info.

B

 

[Glocktogo]

GTG - So... QC ammo - chamber check ammo? I've never heard of this.. do you literally run every round through the chamber to see if it ejects? I'm confused about this one. Does anyone who shoots production do this? Is it common?

Thanks to everyone for the detailed info.

B

If you're running quality factory ammo, this isn't an issue. If you're handloading with previously fired cases, it's a must IMO. You can buy a case gage, which is nothing more than a short piece of stainless steel bar stock that is reamed to match grade chamber tolerances. You drop the round in and if it goes flush and drops back out, it's good to go.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25548/catid/3/Dillon_Handgun_Case_Gages

Using your barrel taken out of the gun isn't as optimal. Some chambers are looser than others and some have unsupported chambers. If you drop a round in and it's bulged, but the bulge happens to slide in where the chamber is unsupported, you'll think it's ok. But if it then feeds into the chamber while firing with the bulge in another orientation, you could wind up with a stuck case. Case gages are cheap insurance if you're shooting reloaded or remanufactured ammo.

When reloading match ammo, I exclusively use a Lee or EGW (rebranded Lee) "U" sizing die. This eliminates 99% of the problems with out of spec cases, but I still gage check for major matches because that doesn't eliminate an out of spec bullet.

 

[KurtM]

I have a small bucket full of factory ammo that DOESN'T pass the guage test! Now to it's credit, it almost always chambers anyway as a case guage is usually cut minimum SAAMI spec....but there have been a few that don't. Just an observation. KurtM