K98k's and politics

[MoBoost]

So how can you be down on the Mauser K98k as a tool of an evil regime... but not say the same about the MN 91/30 being a tool of another evil regime? I haven't seen many of your postings regarding the morality of owning one or the other of these firearms, but what I've read has been wholly negative about the K98k. Why not the MN's as well?

Mosin Nagant was issued to my great-grand-fathers and grand-fathers (very literally) to fight off invading Nazis.

K98k was issued to a Nazi soldier that ripped my grand-mother from my great-grand-mother's hands (again very very literally) and sent one to Germany as slave-girl and another to concentration camp.

So, in my opinion, the only K98 worth mentioning is the one picked up from a hand of a dead Nazi. If you disagree - please enlighten me.

You might be able to school me on some book knowledge - kind hard to beat conversations with family who experienced it first hand.

No matter how you dance - tens of thousands innocent perished at the muzzle end of K98, and millions marched to death at the same muzzle.

Again, I have nothing against Mausers - but to pick a Nazi weapon when all these other Mausers are available, is beyond me.

By the way, I know you have or had a PU sniper - and are very good with it, from what I've heard

Still got it and added another one

 

[cmhbob]

How many millions died at the point of an AK or SKS?

 

[MoBoost]

How many millions died at the point of an AK or SKS?

Unless you are talking about a specifically marked firearms (like Khmer Rouge) - you just trying to do what 10 other people tried to do on here - side-step away from the Nazi Marked weapon.

 

[caojyn]

Mosin Nagant was issued to my great-grand-fathers and grand-fathers (very literally) to fight off invading Nazis.

K98k was issued to a Nazi soldier that ripped my grand-mother from my great-grand-mother's hands (again very very literally) and sent one to Germany as slave-girl and another to concentration camp.

So, in my opinion, the only K98 worth mentioning is the one picked up from a hand of a dead Nazi. If you disagree - please enlighten me.

You might be able to school me on some book knowledge - kind hard to beat conversations with family who experienced it first hand.

No matter how you dance - tens of thousands innocent perished at the muzzle end of K98, and millions marched to death at the same muzzle.

Again, I have nothing against Mausers - but to pick a Nazi weapon when all these other Mausers are available, is beyond me.


Still got it and added another one

Now it makes sense, it's a family honor issue. I get that. Same reason I only drink michael collins Irish Whiskey.

 

[Perplexed]

Mosin Nagant was issued to my great-grand-fathers and grand-fathers (very literally) to fight off invading Nazis.

K98k was issued to a Nazi soldier that ripped my grand-mother from my great-grand-mother's hands (again very very literally) and sent one to Germany as slave-girl and another to concentration camp.

So, in my opinion, the only K98 worth mentioning is the one picked up from a hand of a dead Nazi. If you disagree - please enlighten me.

You might be able to school me on some book knowledge - kind hard to beat conversations with family who experienced it first hand.

No matter how you dance - tens of thousands innocent perished at the muzzle end of K98, and millions marched to death at the same muzzle.

Again, I have nothing against Mausers - but to pick a Nazi weapon when all these other Mausers are available, is beyond me.


Still got it and added another one

OK, it makes more sense now - I had had the impression your ancestors had been rounded up by Soviet troops. Now I see it was the Germans who did that, so it's a matter of personal feelings that you'd look upon "Nazi-marked" firearms with distaste. I get it.

However, what would you say to the Pole, Estonian, or Latvian whose ancestors were rounded up, deported, and/or killed by Soviet troops at the point of a M-N 91/30? If that person were to tell you you shouldn't own a PU sniper because it's Soviet-marked? After all, the Hungarians made a post-war copy of that rifle, called the M/52... why not own that instead?

My point is, it's a slippery slope to pick up a brush and paint darkly the firearms made and used by one country, because that same brush could be used to paint the firearms of other countries. You may have a personal bias against Mauser K98k's because of your family history, but others may not have that same bias. As long as someone who owns a K98k - or a 91/30, a M1 Garand, a No. 4 Mk. 1, a Carcano, etc. - is aware of the potentially sordid history behind the firearm as a design, it should be OK to own it. No one comes out lily-white, to each his or her own, etc.

 

[MoBoost]

However, what would you say to the Pole, Estonian, or Latvian whose ancestors were rounded up, deported, and/or killed by Soviet troops at the point of a M-N 91/30? If that person were to tell you you shouldn't own a PU sniper because it's Soviet-marked?

I'd tell them that what Soviets did to them is inexcusable, but it is part of MY history, that in MY raising Mosin Nagant was the weapon of resistance, patriotism and freedom. That MY great-grand-fathers lost their lives for that freedom with that weapon in their hands. I'm not proud of Soviet roots - but I'm proud of my family, and what average citizen did during the WWII - despite the great purge, despite the holodomor, despite poor leadership ...

I don't see how anyone would feel the same about anything ... and I mean ANYTHING .... Nazis did.

 

[been]

I'd tell them that what Soviets did to them is inexcusable, but it is part of MY history, that in MY raising Mosin Nagant was the weapon of resistance, patriotism and freedom. That MY great-grand-fathers lost their lives for that freedom with that weapon in their hands. I'm not proud of Soviet roots - but I'm proud of my family, and what average citizen did during the WWII - despite the great purge, despite the holodomor, despite poor leadership ...

I don't see how anyone would feel the same about anything ... and I mean ANYTHING .... Nazis did.

did the Israelis use Nazi marked k98's? Serious question..not trying to troll.

 

[Perplexed]

I don't see how anyone would feel the same about anything ... and I mean ANYTHING .... Nazis did.

No one should. But my point remains; if a person is going to denigrate the Mauser K98k because it was used by an evil regime during WW2, then the same should be said about the M91/30 used by another evil regime, etc. Your personal family history is that - a personal experience. It's a sad story, but it doesn't mean everyone else should feel as you do, because to do so and condemn the firearms of one evil regime without condemning the firearms of other evil regimes would be to have a selective view of world history.

Again, I want to make clear I respect your family's history. But to assume that people should be aghast at the idea of owning a "Nazi-marked" firearm purely on the basis of the atrocities they perpetrated, without applying the same sentiment to the firearms of the Soviets and so acknowledging the atrocities they caused, is a bit uneven.

It's your opinion, and I respect that. I just hope you can see the issue from a different perspective, and understand what I and others are saying.

 

[Perplexed]

did the Israelis use Nazi marked k98's? Serious question..not trying to troll.

Yes, they did. And often with the swastikas still clearly marked.

 

[MoBoost]

Again, I want to make clear I respect your family's history. But to assume that people should be aghast at the idea of owning a "Nazi-marked" firearm purely on the basis of the atrocities they perpetrated, without applying the same sentiment to the firearms of the Soviets and so acknowledging the atrocities they caused, is a bit uneven.

Man, you really got me thinking .... I really appreciate having this open and civil conversation with me.

Here is my argument though:

Let's compare MN and K98 -
Both abundant - 30+mil and 14+mil made
Both crude war time guns
Both not very accurate
One carried by Axis the other by Allies.
One is 10x more expensive than the other.

What is the explanation for price difference, other than "hard on for Hitler"?