When shooting prone I grab the sling with my front hand so I Think this would be more natural to me. Standing I wrap my arm through the sling. I want to try one Tobe sure I like it....
By getting the hand as close to on top of the rifle as possible (along with further forward), it's claimed that recoil control and pointability is increased. Also, they claim that by pointing the thumb forward (and some point the index finger as well), target transitions are smoother and the end of the transition is more likely to be aligned with the target. It's claimed that these theories are supported by better hits and speed in testing.
You can see how the fingers are bunched by the hand stop, and even more so by the VFG. This reduces how much pressure can be exerted with the support hand. Looking at the hand position on the AFG, it's more natural. Just like with the thumbs high forward pistol grip technique, the support hand is doing most of the work in gripping the rifle. It's also driving the gun.
As sumoj stated, I like to curl my pinkie into the opening at the bottom rear of the grip. I haven't yet had a chance to run this setup hard, but my initial impression was that it instantly felt more natural and controllable than my Larue FUG. It also allows me to get much further forward on the short carbine forend, which is why I put it on there and left the FUG on my longer rail, for now. I can see replacing my FUG in the future on my Noveske upper, I'm just concentrating on other things right now.
At $35 retail, if you didn't like it it would be easy to recoup your investment before the market gets saturated with them. Of course warming to the new idea may be effected by how much $$$ you have invested in other systems.
You can see how the fingers are bunched by the hand stop, and even more so by the VFG. This reduces how much pressure can be exerted with the support hand. Looking at the hand position on the AFG, it's more natural. Just like with the thumbs high forward pistol grip technique, the support hand is doing most of the work in gripping the rifle. It's also driving the gun.
As sumoj stated, I like to curl my pinkie into the opening at the bottom rear of the grip. I haven't yet had a chance to run this setup hard, but my initial impression was that it instantly felt more natural and controllable than my Larue FUG. It also allows me to get much further forward on the short carbine forend, which is why I put it on there and left the FUG on my longer rail, for now. I can see replacing my FUG in the future on my Noveske upper, I'm just concentrating on other things right now.
At $35 retail, if you didn't like it it would be easy to recoup your investment before the market gets saturated with them. Of course warming to the new idea may be effected by how much $$$ you have invested in other systems.
Thank you very much. That was very informative. May have to give one a try.
I put one on my 11.5" AR. So far I like it, but haven't shot with it yet. Hope to go in the next week or so.
"By getting the hand as close to on top of the rifle as possible (along with further forward),"
Well kinda...sorta, but not really, at least the hand on top thing. Further forward is good! Arms MUCH wider apart than you would think and very neutral in forend tension with hand. If you point your index finger twards the targets it is hard to over-grip the fore-end
"It's claimed that these theories are supported by better hits and speed in testing."
These aren't theories they are true facts. The best "action rifle" shooters in the world use these true and tested techniques, this is the way the U.S. Army A.M.U. teaches action rifle shooting, so we are far beyond Theory. I find it an ammusment that we now have a F.M.D.* that in a way forces the user into this position...but hey if it helps get the word out all is good.
Now where F.M.D.s accell is where there is very little hand space left on the forend due to all sorts of clamp on stuff, lights, lasers, bottle openers etc. but seeing one on a bare fore-end......EEEESH!
Attached is a good picture of the propper grip on a carbine, from the European Rile Championships. This U.S. shooter has a perfect form in reguards to what Glocktgo is alluding to, and also has a real cool one of a kind J.P. Rifle
*F.M.D. = forward mounted dildo
Well kinda...sorta, but not really, at least the hand on top thing. Further forward is good! Arms MUCH wider apart than you would think and very neutral in forend tension with hand. If you point your index finger twards the targets it is hard to over-grip the fore-end
"It's claimed that these theories are supported by better hits and speed in testing."
These aren't theories they are true facts. The best "action rifle" shooters in the world use these true and tested techniques, this is the way the U.S. Army A.M.U. teaches action rifle shooting, so we are far beyond Theory. I find it an ammusment that we now have a F.M.D.* that in a way forces the user into this position...but hey if it helps get the word out all is good.
Now where F.M.D.s accell is where there is very little hand space left on the forend due to all sorts of clamp on stuff, lights, lasers, bottle openers etc. but seeing one on a bare fore-end......EEEESH!
Attached is a good picture of the propper grip on a carbine, from the European Rile Championships. This U.S. shooter has a perfect form in reguards to what Glocktgo is alluding to, and also has a real cool one of a kind J.P. Rifle
*F.M.D. = forward mounted dildo
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Compared to a sling...do the VFDs just help you deploy your rifle more rapidly?
A sling is a shooting aide, and a way to carry a rifle. The F.M.D. is just a way to grip a rifle...they serve different purposes. As for deploying a rifle from say a low ready, with the proprer hold, the rifle will settle much faster on target than gripping a F.M.D....however the "new" Magpul will probaly be about the same as a propper grip, as it forces you to "do it right" as pictured. The sling in the picture is a Ching sling if you were wondering. here is a small thumb nail picture of the setup. KurtM
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spend more on the accessories
Most of the game gun crowd probably won't be adding these. Their rifle evolution is significantly different from the tactical types.
Kurt is right in that this is going to help you manage accessories such as lights and laser/IR devices for the troops. Also, the game gunners rarely have to hold their rifles in position for long periods, unlike LE with a barricaded suspect or troops in harm's way. The AFG will help reduce fatigue over long periods for them.
I find it particularly useful for getting the grip further forward than would otherwise be possible on an SBR. You don't see many of those on the 3 gun circuit.
Every rifle should have a sling. It's part of the system.
Kurt is right in that this is going to help you manage accessories such as lights and laser/IR devices for the troops. Also, the game gunners rarely have to hold their rifles in position for long periods, unlike LE with a barricaded suspect or troops in harm's way. The AFG will help reduce fatigue over long periods for them.
I find it particularly useful for getting the grip further forward than would otherwise be possible on an SBR. You don't see many of those on the 3 gun circuit.
Every rifle should have a sling. It's part of the system.
Yep for the average guy the fatigue thing sure is a consideration, and yes "gameguys" don't tend to hold rifles up for a real long time....however ( I am not necessarily disagreeing with Glocktogo here just a different view point). I have found in all the teaching I do around the world ( L.E. Military, Security) that if you keep someone with thier gun up all the time, kind of like was alluded to, for say around 4-5 minutes and then challenge them with a shoot scenario, thier reaction time to first shot is almost identical to someone who was in a relaxed low ready. It is still the mental lag of..."oh hey i got to shoot" that decides reaction time, aimed in or not. Now the funny part is that the guys going from low ready to bang almost always get better hits, as durring the decision making process they are already moving smoothly into the target where as the "pointed in guys" almost to the man convulse on the trigger and have worse hits. Also the guys using F.M.D.s almost to the man have much bigger dispersion of shots as both hands when grasping vertical grip will convulse both hands at the same time causeing side to side movement where as the more open type grip like in the picture will cause a more linear movement of the rifle.
Remember when it was in vogue to train "hold the mag well"?? Well everone finally found out that that was a TERRIBLE thing to do, so we are slowly getting away from it and the F.M.D, is still in the same venue...so if you must run one....make sure it is WAY OUT THERE....Just like Glocktogo Said!
And as an aside we are now definitly talking theory...how ever it is backed up with experience, a large pool of test subjects from around the globe, and your friend and mine...a timer!
Remember when it was in vogue to train "hold the mag well"?? Well everone finally found out that that was a TERRIBLE thing to do, so we are slowly getting away from it and the F.M.D, is still in the same venue...so if you must run one....make sure it is WAY OUT THERE....Just like Glocktogo Said!
And as an aside we are now definitly talking theory...how ever it is backed up with experience, a large pool of test subjects from around the globe, and your friend and mine...a timer!
