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Competition, Tactics & Training
Self Defense & Handgun Carry
Reasonable suspicion/ R.A.S.
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<blockquote data-quote="okiebryan" data-source="post: 1933025" data-attributes="member: 24457"><p>From conversations that I've had with those who are responsible for making policy for a couple of different LE agencies, here's what has been said consistently:</p><p></p><p>1) They understand that they CAN demand to see a permit from anyone observed to be open carrying. They acknowledge that they are not REQUIRED to demand a permit.</p><p></p><p>2) They do not consider asking to see an SDA license to rise to the level of a detention. Once the license is provided, if the encounter ends and the permit is returned to the subject, there was no detention.</p><p></p><p>3) If the LEO asks you to wait while he runs your name and DOB through some database, now you can ask if you are being detained, and express that you wish to have your SDA license returned and to be on your way. "Am I free to go, officer?" If you don't do this, then you are consenting to them investigating you further, and wasting your time.</p><p></p><p>4) Under the law (I know, this is really silly), if the officer replies that you ARE in fact detained, now you have to notify him/her that you are armed.</p><p></p><p>Keep in mind, that you don't ever know if a LEO believes that they have RAS for an investigatory detention, and THEY DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU. If you are walking through the park with your dog, and Officer Friendly rolls up on you, you would think, "I'm doing a legal activity, and he has no reason to detain me." You might be right. What you have no way to know, is that he just took a report on an attempted sexual assault or armed robbery of someone matching your height and clothing description. He damn sure does have RAS in this case, and likely will be doing a Felony stop. It may feel like your rights are being violated, but if you don't listen to and follow instructions, you might get tazed or shot. </p><p></p><p>The place to argue this stuff is in 1) A police complaint, or 2) in court. NOT during the encounter. Do I have problems with the law saying that they can ID me absent RAS? Yes. But until the law is changed or an appellate court strikes it down, I WILL COMPLY.</p><p></p><p>If LEOs use this permit check as a tool of harassment, then OKOCA will deal with that as an organization. Understand that carrying a recorder (even secretly) to document encounters with LE is not only PERFECTLY LEGAL, it's something that OKOCA highly recommends. It's the only way to remove the "he said, she said" from the story if someone acts outside of what the law requires or allows.</p><p></p><p>The LEOs I have talked to about this (with me representing Oklahoma Open Carry Association) have expressed that they believe that open carry is not going to be a real problem. I agree with them. But people need to be smart about this on both sides of the thin blue line.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="okiebryan, post: 1933025, member: 24457"] From conversations that I've had with those who are responsible for making policy for a couple of different LE agencies, here's what has been said consistently: 1) They understand that they CAN demand to see a permit from anyone observed to be open carrying. They acknowledge that they are not REQUIRED to demand a permit. 2) They do not consider asking to see an SDA license to rise to the level of a detention. Once the license is provided, if the encounter ends and the permit is returned to the subject, there was no detention. 3) If the LEO asks you to wait while he runs your name and DOB through some database, now you can ask if you are being detained, and express that you wish to have your SDA license returned and to be on your way. "Am I free to go, officer?" If you don't do this, then you are consenting to them investigating you further, and wasting your time. 4) Under the law (I know, this is really silly), if the officer replies that you ARE in fact detained, now you have to notify him/her that you are armed. Keep in mind, that you don't ever know if a LEO believes that they have RAS for an investigatory detention, and THEY DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU. If you are walking through the park with your dog, and Officer Friendly rolls up on you, you would think, "I'm doing a legal activity, and he has no reason to detain me." You might be right. What you have no way to know, is that he just took a report on an attempted sexual assault or armed robbery of someone matching your height and clothing description. He damn sure does have RAS in this case, and likely will be doing a Felony stop. It may feel like your rights are being violated, but if you don't listen to and follow instructions, you might get tazed or shot. The place to argue this stuff is in 1) A police complaint, or 2) in court. NOT during the encounter. Do I have problems with the law saying that they can ID me absent RAS? Yes. But until the law is changed or an appellate court strikes it down, I WILL COMPLY. If LEOs use this permit check as a tool of harassment, then OKOCA will deal with that as an organization. Understand that carrying a recorder (even secretly) to document encounters with LE is not only PERFECTLY LEGAL, it's something that OKOCA highly recommends. It's the only way to remove the "he said, she said" from the story if someone acts outside of what the law requires or allows. The LEOs I have talked to about this (with me representing Oklahoma Open Carry Association) have expressed that they believe that open carry is not going to be a real problem. I agree with them. But people need to be smart about this on both sides of the thin blue line. [/QUOTE]
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