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The Range
Law & Order
"Red Flag" Gun Removal in NY, signed into law
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<blockquote data-quote="Aries" data-source="post: 3209200" data-attributes="member: 44328"><p>I appreciate that your intentions are good, but these laws in particular have way more potential for bad than good. They put people and law enforcement in a position of trying to guess what someone is THINKING, and take legal action based solely on that. So how will you ever know if the complaint was meritorious or not? The police took your guns before you committed a crime. Would you have committed a crime if they hadn't? Who knows, maybe not. There won't be any way to know, unless there is other evidence that you were planning something, which is probably already illegal.</p><p></p><p>But they are being implemented NOW as flawed, so we have the guy described above in Vermont because his nephews made some ill-advised statements that he didn't even know about... and a dead man in Maryland who probably made some mistakes in how he reacted but hadn't violated any laws. He had one family member saying they thought he was potentially a danger, and one who said he was not a danger to anyone, so there is disagreement over whether there was any concern.</p><p></p><p>BTW, if you impose penalties for falsely reporting, you would have to prove that they knew it was false. If you penalize someone because it just turned out they were wrong, you basically gut the intention of the law, because anyone with any sense will be hesitant to report someone.</p><p></p><p>And isn't that kind of ironic? You'd have to prove that they knowingly made a false report, but you can take a guys guns without having to prove anything.</p><p></p><p>Again, we can look at them... in fact I hope this is a healthy discussion... but just in the short history of these laws we have seen big problems, and we have no way of knowing if they have prevented a single crime. We do know that even if they get their guns back, it takes time and money.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aries, post: 3209200, member: 44328"] I appreciate that your intentions are good, but these laws in particular have way more potential for bad than good. They put people and law enforcement in a position of trying to guess what someone is THINKING, and take legal action based solely on that. So how will you ever know if the complaint was meritorious or not? The police took your guns before you committed a crime. Would you have committed a crime if they hadn't? Who knows, maybe not. There won't be any way to know, unless there is other evidence that you were planning something, which is probably already illegal. But they are being implemented NOW as flawed, so we have the guy described above in Vermont because his nephews made some ill-advised statements that he didn't even know about... and a dead man in Maryland who probably made some mistakes in how he reacted but hadn't violated any laws. He had one family member saying they thought he was potentially a danger, and one who said he was not a danger to anyone, so there is disagreement over whether there was any concern. BTW, if you impose penalties for falsely reporting, you would have to prove that they knew it was false. If you penalize someone because it just turned out they were wrong, you basically gut the intention of the law, because anyone with any sense will be hesitant to report someone. And isn't that kind of ironic? You'd have to prove that they knowingly made a false report, but you can take a guys guns without having to prove anything. Again, we can look at them... in fact I hope this is a healthy discussion... but just in the short history of these laws we have seen big problems, and we have no way of knowing if they have prevented a single crime. We do know that even if they get their guns back, it takes time and money. [/QUOTE]
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"Red Flag" Gun Removal in NY, signed into law
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