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<blockquote data-quote="tulsanewb" data-source="post: 2523975" data-attributes="member: 2133"><p>Those are lifetime numbers. I'm on my phone but will post the source when I get home. I would also disagree that tax incentives are not subsidies. Anytime the government places more money in the pocket of a business it is a subsidy. Whether they write a check or say "just keep 5%" the end result is the same. The business had that money on the books where they otherwise would not have. It isn't a democrat or republican thing, it is an accounting thing. In accounting, the subsidy or thr incentive would both be marked as a credit in the ledger. Alternatively, say you owe me 100 dollars for writing a simple program for you, but you have a box of 22 I want to buy for $20. If I say "just give me $80 and the bullets" did I not pay for the bullets? To me that is the same as you paying me $100 and me giving $20 back. </p><p></p><p>Edited to add sources:</p><p></p><p>Source, which cite's their sources as well. <a href="http://www.energyfactcheck.org/slideshow/renewable-energy-subsidies-prop-up-an-otherwise-economically-unviable-industry-we-should-level-the-playing-field-by-removing-clean-energy-handouts-and-let-renewables-compete-with-fo/" target="_blank">http://www.energyfactcheck.org/slideshow/renewable-energy-subsidies-prop-up-an-otherwise-economically-unviable-industry-we-should-level-the-playing-field-by-removing-clean-energy-handouts-and-let-renewables-compete-with-fo/</a></p><p></p><p>Also: <a href="http://www.dblinvestors.com/documents/What-Would-Jefferson-Do-Final-Version.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.dblinvestors.com/documents/What-Would-Jefferson-Do-Final-Version.pdf</a></p><p></p><p>And another for good measure, the IEA: <a href="http://www.iea.org/weo/quotes.asp" target="_blank">http://www.iea.org/weo/quotes.asp</a></p><p></p><p>The IMF (International Monetary Fund) has a slightly different number, but for 2011 so that likely explains the discrepancy: They say 480Billion pre-tax, or "On a post-tax basis, which also factors in the negative externalities from energy consumption, subsidies are much higher at $1.9 trillion (2½ percent of global GDP or 8 percent of total government revenues)"</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tulsanewb, post: 2523975, member: 2133"] Those are lifetime numbers. I'm on my phone but will post the source when I get home. I would also disagree that tax incentives are not subsidies. Anytime the government places more money in the pocket of a business it is a subsidy. Whether they write a check or say "just keep 5%" the end result is the same. The business had that money on the books where they otherwise would not have. It isn't a democrat or republican thing, it is an accounting thing. In accounting, the subsidy or thr incentive would both be marked as a credit in the ledger. Alternatively, say you owe me 100 dollars for writing a simple program for you, but you have a box of 22 I want to buy for $20. If I say "just give me $80 and the bullets" did I not pay for the bullets? To me that is the same as you paying me $100 and me giving $20 back. Edited to add sources: Source, which cite's their sources as well. [url]http://www.energyfactcheck.org/slideshow/renewable-energy-subsidies-prop-up-an-otherwise-economically-unviable-industry-we-should-level-the-playing-field-by-removing-clean-energy-handouts-and-let-renewables-compete-with-fo/[/url] Also: [url]http://www.dblinvestors.com/documents/What-Would-Jefferson-Do-Final-Version.pdf[/url] And another for good measure, the IEA: [url]http://www.iea.org/weo/quotes.asp[/url] The IMF (International Monetary Fund) has a slightly different number, but for 2011 so that likely explains the discrepancy: They say 480Billion pre-tax, or "On a post-tax basis, which also factors in the negative externalities from energy consumption, subsidies are much higher at $1.9 trillion (2½ percent of global GDP or 8 percent of total government revenues)" [/QUOTE]
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