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The official " will israel do it " discussion
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<blockquote data-quote="Glocktogo" data-source="post: 1895065" data-attributes="member: 1132"><p>My comments in blue. You have to first realize that geographically, Israel holds very little strategic value in the region. Our allies Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain hold far more strategic value. The reason we don't have any relations with Iran is historical and dates back to pre- WWI. You have to understand the interplay between Reza Shah Pahlavi, his son Mohammad Reza Shah (whom we know in modern times as the Shah of Iran) and Mohammad Mossaddeq. The U.S. was essentially the puppetmaster, pulling the strings of the Shah between mid-1953 to the Iranian Revolution in 1979. Under the U.S. backed Shah, the SAVAK were brutal in their quelling of any political dissent. Internally, it was this resentment and hatred of the Shah that propagated virulent hatred and mistrust of the West, and the U.S. in particular. The current Iranian theocracy is a beast that's partially of our own making. We supported a brutal dictator because he would do our bidding and they hate us for it. Keep in mind that there's still a sizable segment of the Iranian populace that preferred the secular society created by Reza Shah Pahlavi in the first half of the 20th Century. These Iranians would welcome western intervention and benevolence on their behalf. </p><p></p><p>Now, take that and apply it to Israel. Israel can be brutal and heavy handed with the Palestinians. For the most part, the rest of the Islamic inhabitants of the Fertile Crescent consider the Palestinians as a lower class or caste. They don't want Palestinian refugees in their AOR any more than the Israelis do. However, because they're ruled and sometimes brutalized by Israel, the rest of them support the Palestinians in opposition to Israel. It's difficult to find on the internet, but their feudal system of conflicts goes something like this: Me against my brother. Me and my brother against my cousins. Me, my brother and my cousins against the tribe. And so on and so forth, culminating in Islam against the rest of the world. Keep in mind that this isn't an Islamic teaching, but a feudal system propagated by feudal societies that predate Mohammed and Islam. Everything that people normally associate with Islam in the middle east can be applied to the same people for thousands of years before Islam. </p><p></p><p>No single religious sect has a legitimate claim to soverign rule of the Holy Lands, regardless of what those sects claim. They've been fighting for 10,000 years and nothing we do will stop that. Hence my argument that we have no business fighting for them/with them/against them, etc. </p><p></p><p>Waiting for peace in that region is a long wait for a train don't come. <img src="/images/smilies/frown.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" data-shortname=":(" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Glocktogo, post: 1895065, member: 1132"] My comments in blue. You have to first realize that geographically, Israel holds very little strategic value in the region. Our allies Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain hold far more strategic value. The reason we don't have any relations with Iran is historical and dates back to pre- WWI. You have to understand the interplay between Reza Shah Pahlavi, his son Mohammad Reza Shah (whom we know in modern times as the Shah of Iran) and Mohammad Mossaddeq. The U.S. was essentially the puppetmaster, pulling the strings of the Shah between mid-1953 to the Iranian Revolution in 1979. Under the U.S. backed Shah, the SAVAK were brutal in their quelling of any political dissent. Internally, it was this resentment and hatred of the Shah that propagated virulent hatred and mistrust of the West, and the U.S. in particular. The current Iranian theocracy is a beast that's partially of our own making. We supported a brutal dictator because he would do our bidding and they hate us for it. Keep in mind that there's still a sizable segment of the Iranian populace that preferred the secular society created by Reza Shah Pahlavi in the first half of the 20th Century. These Iranians would welcome western intervention and benevolence on their behalf. Now, take that and apply it to Israel. Israel can be brutal and heavy handed with the Palestinians. For the most part, the rest of the Islamic inhabitants of the Fertile Crescent consider the Palestinians as a lower class or caste. They don't want Palestinian refugees in their AOR any more than the Israelis do. However, because they're ruled and sometimes brutalized by Israel, the rest of them support the Palestinians in opposition to Israel. It's difficult to find on the internet, but their feudal system of conflicts goes something like this: Me against my brother. Me and my brother against my cousins. Me, my brother and my cousins against the tribe. And so on and so forth, culminating in Islam against the rest of the world. Keep in mind that this isn't an Islamic teaching, but a feudal system propagated by feudal societies that predate Mohammed and Islam. Everything that people normally associate with Islam in the middle east can be applied to the same people for thousands of years before Islam. No single religious sect has a legitimate claim to soverign rule of the Holy Lands, regardless of what those sects claim. They've been fighting for 10,000 years and nothing we do will stop that. Hence my argument that we have no business fighting for them/with them/against them, etc. Waiting for peace in that region is a long wait for a train don't come. :( [/QUOTE]
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