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The Range
Rifle & Shotgun Discussion
The Shotty Showdown! Mossberg 500/590 vs Remington 870. Which one and why?
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<blockquote data-quote="APH Tactical" data-source="post: 3063740" data-attributes="member: 40946"><p>Edited for easier reading....</p><p></p><p>Dennishoddy:</p><p>I'd like to discuss this... and not as a pissing contest.</p><p></p><p>Mike:</p><p>Sounds great Dennis, wouldn't have it any other way.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>dennishoddy:</p><p>never experienced a hard primer or a fail to fire because of primer issues.</p><p></p><p>Mike:</p><p>I was using the "hard primer" as an example of any FTF/FTE scenario in which the gun must be manually cycled. Be it a hard primer/light strike, light powder charge, hammer fails to reset, or a failure in the gas system, guns fail and on an offensive/defensive gun, that failure can be bad news. But as far as our "fixes" for a hard primer are concerned, If rather the primer be stuck 10% harder than it should be than 10% lighter. There may not be another hard primer left in the world but if there is, and it finds its way into my gun, I don't want to know about it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>dennishoddy:</p><p>If perchance that ever happens, the slide on a semi can be racked on a door frame, the side of the leg, (which will hurt like hell) or another piece of furniture or at worst case, on the carpet with the gun turned at a 90 degree angle, sliding it on the floor to cycle the action. Lots of options.</p><p>Not sure if you caught the last bit in my post, but I also run a Semi 12 for defensive use.</p><p></p><p>Mike:</p><p>Don't get me wrong, I wasn't attempting to argue the pump over the semi, far from it. We'll actually be dropping our 930 before or pump models. I was just stating that in the event of a failure, it's faster to get a pump back in the fight than a semi. I'm not a racer and unfortunately, my products are not geared towards that crowd. We don't run 2.5lb triggers , but the movement on our triggers has been substantially reduced, enabling faster follow-ups and minimalizing the access points of debris the the action.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>dennishoddy:</p><p>I'm interested in why you polish the chamber? Would not a long day of shooting clays or trap negate the polish or does it keep the carbon caused by back splash washed off?</p><p></p><p>Mike:</p><p>First and foremost on this, which is what most users will experience, yes, it is much easier to keep a fully honed chamber/cone/barrel clean than unhoned, and yes, as you mentioned, this surface finish also promotes "self cleaning". The latter two even promote slightly higher muzzle velocity/energy. But as far as reliability is concerned, I have on numerous occasions come across a shell that had to be rodded out of the gun. Some of those shells were so stuck in there, that even when the bolt was forced rearward, the extractor cut straight through the base of the shell. As the brass or steel expands in the chamber it molds itself in and around the imperfections in the steel. Once the chamber is fully honed, there is less "real estate" for the shell station make purchase on, and the slight increase in chamber I.D. works hands in hand with our Cryogenicaly treated barrels to help minimalize the effects of the chamber warping and shrinking as its temperature increases, causing FTF.</p><p></p><p>The way we see it, why wait until your gun has a problem to find a solution? We find factory shortcomings and mitigate them before they have a chance to make your bad day worse.</p><p></p><p>God Bless,</p><p>Mike</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="APH Tactical, post: 3063740, member: 40946"] Edited for easier reading.... Dennishoddy: I'd like to discuss this... and not as a pissing contest. Mike: Sounds great Dennis, wouldn't have it any other way. dennishoddy: never experienced a hard primer or a fail to fire because of primer issues. Mike: I was using the "hard primer" as an example of any FTF/FTE scenario in which the gun must be manually cycled. Be it a hard primer/light strike, light powder charge, hammer fails to reset, or a failure in the gas system, guns fail and on an offensive/defensive gun, that failure can be bad news. But as far as our "fixes" for a hard primer are concerned, If rather the primer be stuck 10% harder than it should be than 10% lighter. There may not be another hard primer left in the world but if there is, and it finds its way into my gun, I don't want to know about it. dennishoddy: If perchance that ever happens, the slide on a semi can be racked on a door frame, the side of the leg, (which will hurt like hell) or another piece of furniture or at worst case, on the carpet with the gun turned at a 90 degree angle, sliding it on the floor to cycle the action. Lots of options. Not sure if you caught the last bit in my post, but I also run a Semi 12 for defensive use. Mike: Don't get me wrong, I wasn't attempting to argue the pump over the semi, far from it. We'll actually be dropping our 930 before or pump models. I was just stating that in the event of a failure, it's faster to get a pump back in the fight than a semi. I'm not a racer and unfortunately, my products are not geared towards that crowd. We don't run 2.5lb triggers , but the movement on our triggers has been substantially reduced, enabling faster follow-ups and minimalizing the access points of debris the the action. dennishoddy: I'm interested in why you polish the chamber? Would not a long day of shooting clays or trap negate the polish or does it keep the carbon caused by back splash washed off? Mike: First and foremost on this, which is what most users will experience, yes, it is much easier to keep a fully honed chamber/cone/barrel clean than unhoned, and yes, as you mentioned, this surface finish also promotes "self cleaning". The latter two even promote slightly higher muzzle velocity/energy. But as far as reliability is concerned, I have on numerous occasions come across a shell that had to be rodded out of the gun. Some of those shells were so stuck in there, that even when the bolt was forced rearward, the extractor cut straight through the base of the shell. As the brass or steel expands in the chamber it molds itself in and around the imperfections in the steel. Once the chamber is fully honed, there is less "real estate" for the shell station make purchase on, and the slight increase in chamber I.D. works hands in hand with our Cryogenicaly treated barrels to help minimalize the effects of the chamber warping and shrinking as its temperature increases, causing FTF. The way we see it, why wait until your gun has a problem to find a solution? We find factory shortcomings and mitigate them before they have a chance to make your bad day worse. God Bless, Mike [/QUOTE]
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