Time on target from concealed carry

[Pulp]

The times indicate you are not double tapping, but firing two aimed shots.

The world record for 5 hits on plates at a steel challenge is 1.71 seconds, but most of us are happy to get the first shot off in that time.

True enough. That's my problem with Cowboy Action also. Something in my distant past says "verify your aim before firing". Supposedly in CAS the best say, "when you see steel, break the shot". I have to confirm in my mind I've got the sight picture. I rarely miss, but I'm slower than snot. Out of the 12 stages as EOT I only had two under 60 seconds. Some of that is equipment related (SXS I have to pull empties out of instead of dumping empties out of, hammer springs on my 10 gauge can be used as overloads on a 3/4 ton truck etc, etc) but mostly I'm just slow.

 

[poopgiggle]

Something that I've started working on recently is making sure I get a decent sight picture quickly when I draw. I've been practicing moving a cover garment out of the way and drawing for some time now, but I neglected to make sure that I was getting a decent sight picture. It pointed me at some problems I was having with my grip and it's helped me get hits faster.

 

[trbii]

A decent hit at anything under two seconds drawing from concealed is good enough I believe. Training I've been fortunate to get from a dozen different classes since 1994 have led me to believe that your awareness of the reality of whats happening to you and around you, knowing when it's time to move your ass and do something, will make all the difference between surviving the "incident", or not. Way more important than calibers or bullet shapes/types. Move your ass when it's time to act. OODA (observe orient decide act), before he does.

 

[1911user]

Splits between shots are pretty bad, with practice you should be able to get those down to 0.25-0.3 seconds pretty easily.

I can do consistent 1.7's from an IWB holster under a t-shirt, an open garment is a little bit faster.

same here.

Watch that front sight. It is your best friend when shooting fast. It tells you where you will hit when the shot/trigger breaks. It tells you when you can pull the trigger again and hit the target. It's easy to make noise when shooting. It's harder to get good target hits under stress.

If you are not a competitive shooter, come out and give it a try. The more shooting you do under some form of pressure will make it that much easier if the shooting is to save you or your family.

 

[loudshirt]

I went out to the land today with my 1911 and timer just to see how I could do. Shooting at a chest sized steel plate from about 10 yards. Fobus holster under untucked shirt tail. First attempt was a dismal 4.19 seconds, second 3.27, third 3.03, but I missed on that one, so it don't count.

I had the buzzer set for random start between 3-5 seconds and was not looking at the target while waiting for the beep. I'd turn to the right and look off at the pasture, or look down for spent brass.

Then I tried double tapping, here's how that went:
First shot Second shot
3.14 4.17
3.17 4.29
2.93 3.86
3.18 4.11
2.79 4.37
2.65 3.39
2.88 3.70

I'm just curious, is this close to average, or just snail slow. Obviously I ain't no Jerry Miculek

With an 1851 Navy I can do around 1.5 -2.0 on first shot on target, but that's with an open holster, not a concealed holster.

BTW, if you have a iPod touch or an Iphone, order the shot timer app. It's only $9.99 and works great. If you have the iPod Touch, you'll have to get earphones with a built in microphone.

I'm very nearly the world's slowest Cowboy Action Shooter, (at EOT I placed in the top 97.8%) and now I'm thinking I'm also the world's slowest from concealed carry.

Those times are not too bad. Me and a friend went out one day and tried just IDPA style concealed/open carry style on the hip. We each had a serpa holster. We did about 2.1ish on draw. Oh and I was using the free timer app for an iphone.

 

[David E]

FOBUS stands for "Found Out Being Utterly Slow"....

Just sayin'.........

With a good holster and on a target of a reasonable size and distance. (Like an IPSC target at 5-7 yds, "C" zone or better) you should be able to get to 1.5 and below for the first shot, if not faster.

There is no point in not looking at the target while waiting for the beep. If you're trying to emulate a "real world" encounter, then I bet your focus will be 100% on the person that you think might try to kill you in the next heartbeat or two.

 

[Michael Brown]

Times will vary greatly depending on what "concealment" entails.

In IDPA legal concealed gear i.e. a kydex OWB holster and vest, I can make an A/-0 hit on a USPSA/IDPA target in about 1.2 seconds or two hits in 1.4 seconds at 7 yards, sometimes less.

From my real concealment gear i.e. leather IWB with untucked polo or t-shirt, the times are closer to 1.6-1.7 seconds for the first shot, sometimes more on the same target and distance.

What you want to know about your numbers depends a lot on your goals.

If you intend to compete, there are some specific numbers you will need if you want to be competitive.

If personal protection is your goal, it really doesn't matter what your times look like as long as you train to improve them and see yoiur numbers decreasing.

IF you are interested in personal protection, I would advise using whatever you intend to carry, establish some numbers, and seek to decrease those.

What they are compared to anyone else is unimportant.

Michael Brown

 

[JPrusik]

I went out to the land today with my 1911 and timer just to see how I could do. Shooting at a chest sized steel plate from about 10 yards. Fobus holster under untucked shirt tail. First attempt was a dismal 4.19 seconds, second 3.27, third 3.03, but I missed on that one, so it don't count.

I had the buzzer set for random start between 3-5 seconds and was not looking at the target while waiting for the beep. I'd turn to the right and look off at the pasture, or look down for spent brass.

Then I tried double tapping, here's how that went:
First shot Second shot
3.14 4.17
3.17 4.29
2.93 3.86
3.18 4.11
2.79 4.37
2.65 3.39
2.88 3.70

I'm just curious, is this close to average, or just snail slow. Obviously I ain't no Jerry Miculek

With an 1851 Navy I can do around 1.5 -2.0 on first shot on target, but that's with an open holster, not a concealed holster.

BTW, if you have a iPod touch or an Iphone, order the shot timer app. It's only $9.99 and works great. If you have the iPod Touch, you'll have to get earphones with a built in microphone.

I'm very nearly the world's slowest Cowboy Action Shooter, (at EOT I placed in the top 97.8%) and now I'm thinking I'm also the world's slowest from concealed carry.

Those times are decent, but aren't you a bit too focued on TIME? All that rambling about time, and nothing about your accruacy or techniques (summer/ winter clothing, holster, baricade, stance, draw, grip, etc). There's no BEEP in combat, so looking away and waiting for a beep is pointless. Its great that you can "double tap" really fast, and look really cool - but in combat, you'll just get dead.

My advice for your concealed carry shooting - throw away the timer and focus on accuracy and techniques - the speed will come.

 

[Michael Brown]

Those times are decent, but aren't you a bit too focued on TIME? All that rambling about time, and nothing about your accruacy or techniques (summer/ winter clothing, holster, baricade, stance, draw, grip, etc). There's no BEEP in combat, so looking away and waiting for a beep is pointless. Its great that you can "double tap" really fast, and look really cool - but in combat, you'll just get dead.

My advice for your concealed carry shooting - throw away the timer and focus on accuracy and techniques - the speed will come.

How do you determine if the speed has come or not if you don't have something with which to quantify the speed?

We quantify accuracy easily and "technique" is irrelevent without something to quantify what the "technique" does.

While speed is not the be-all, end-all in combat, those who come the firstest with the mostest usually win.

YMMV.

Michael Brown

 

[thesensei]

I work this drill regularly with my fellow instructors on the Carry Legal team. I always practice using my EDC (Glock 22 in a leather pancake holster, concealed under an untucked shirt). I also occasionally use Kydex IWB at both the appendix and strong side positions with similar times. I typically practice at 3, 5, and 7 yards, seeing no need to go out to 10. Normally I practice single shots, and sometimes add a second. My best times are as follows:

3 yards: 0.84 seconds
5 yards: 1.00 seconds
7 yards: 1.09 seconds

At 3 yards, I am regularly under 1 second. At 5 yards, I stay consistently under 1.2 seconds. My buddies' times are similar. We are constantly working to speed up, and are doing it. My current goal is to get a sub .5 sec draw at 3 yards with an accurate COM hit!

So what's the secret? Perfect practice! Describing our method on paper wouldn't help much - good training is a necessity.

Shameless plug (we are sponsors on the forum after all): we offer an Intermediate Concealed Carry class that teaches these fundamentals (www.carrylegal.com/icc1.php). At our class this past Saturday, we had a student get his draw to first shot down to 1.56 seconds at 5 yards (he started the day at almost 4 seconds)! Almost every individual in that particular class doubled their draw to first shot speed, with some doing even better than that. Come take our class, and I guarantee you'll see improvement.