The language of violence

[donner]

I've been thinking about this for the past 24 hours and i'm curious to hear some opinions.

First thing, though, this topic will touch upon race but no racism (veiled or otherwise) will be tolerated. Second, keep the rhetoric to yourself. Honest opinions are welcome, but inflammatory posting on either side will shut this down fast. I haven't had the chance to lock any threads yet, so don't think i wont hesitate to shut this one down.

Maybe i'm naive to think that we can have a rational discussion of these things on OSA, but we shall see.

So, my question is in regards to the language we use to discuss violence like we saw yesterday. It's obvious that each side stakes out buzzwords and language that either promote or minimize an issue whenever something like this occurs.

When several people are shot, such as happened yesterday, there is lots of talk of 'mental illness' from one side and 'racism' on the other. Yet when the same number of people are killed in other places, it's often written off a 'gang violence' instead of a 'mass shooting'.

If religion is involved somehow then things change more, with 'mental illness' and 'racism' often being traded for 'terrorism'.

So, how do you decide in your own mind which words to use to describe something like this? Can these things be a combination of things? Are people not capable of seeing these issues as being more complex than just being made up of one or two problems?

Finally, i know it is easy to make the media the scapegoat for these things, but lets be honest, we all parrot the words. Simply writing something off as a larger 'agenda' seems too easy. I want to know how you sort these things out for yourself (media and politics aside).

 

[Coded-Dude]

Our you asking for our interpretation of the keywords, or simply how and when we decide to use them as well as if we ignore certain ones in certain instances. For starters lets just pull a couple definitions out there. I am simply doing a google search to grab these, if you don't agree, post the definition that you think fits better.

define:terrorism = the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

define:racism = the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

define:mental illness = a wide range of mental health conditions - disorders that affect your mood, thinking and behavior. Examples of mental illness include depression, anxiety disorders, schizophrenia, eating disorders and addictive behaviors.

define:gang violence = criminal and non political acts of violence committed by a group of people who regularly engage in criminal activity against innocent people. The term may also refer to physical hostile interactions between two or more gangs.

define:mass shooting = an incident involving multiple victims of gun violence, but there is no official set of criteria or definition for a mass shooting, according to criminology experts and FBI officials.

I'll be back in a bit to post my thoughts.

 

[SMS]

Words I use to describe it?

Human nature.

I've seen the depravity that man is capable of so I'm less "shocked" when evidence of it rears it's ugly head inside the fantasy bubble we have created wherein everyone fools themselves into thinking we can cohabitate like fluffy bunnies and puppies.

I'm sad for the families in S.C. but I don't need to find some societal ill or some object to blame. I know who is to blame, a fu$ked up kid who likely came from a f-ed up home with morons for parents. Unless we want to talk about universal background checks and licensing to become a parent we will never eliminate acts like this...and probably not even then.

Our arrogance makes us think we can "fix" this, but we can't. All we can do is be vigilant and keep trudging on.

 

[donner]

Our you asking for our interpretation of the keywords, or simply how and when we decide to use them as well as if we ignore certain ones in certain instances. For starters lets just pull a couple definitions out there. I am simply doing a google search to grab these, if you don't agree, post the definition that you think fits better.

define:terrorism = the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

define:racism = the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

define:mental illness = a wide range of mental health conditions - disorders that affect your mood, thinking and behavior. Examples of mental illness include depression, anxiety disorders, schizophrenia, eating disorders and addictive behaviors.

define:gang violence = criminal and non political acts of violence committed by a group of people who regularly engage in criminal activity against innocent people. The term may also refer to physical hostile interactions between two or more gangs.

define:mass shooting = an incident involving multiple victims of gun violence, but there is no official set of criteria or definition for a mass shooting, according to criminology experts and FBI officials.

I'll be back in a bit to post my thoughts.

Thanks for the definitions. I just think it's interesting that one side wants to talk about yesterday as being about mental illness and not as racism. Yet, not much discussion of the act as being about race. And i can't help but feel that we'd want to distinguish it yet again as a terrorist act if it was more based on religion.

I perhaps am not being as clear as i could be (as i am wrestling with it all in my head). Maybe it's simply searching for reason for something that has none.

 

[donner]

I should also add that i'm of the mind (as of right now) that it can be about many things.

I don't really want to think that a person who kills 9 people like this is mentally stable, but i'm also not willing to dismiss that he could just have been a hateful racist, either.

Obviously in the world of media and politics, each side will use whichever words further the narrative desired, which is why i think it's hard to actually see a positive change come from these things.

 

[KOPBET]

Racism at this magnitude is inseparable from mental illness. One is a subset of the other. It is both, and there is no way around that.

 

[FamousAJ]

I've been thinking about this for the past 24 hours and i'm curious to hear some opinions.

First thing, though, this topic will touch upon race but no racism (veiled or otherwise) will be tolerated. Second, keep the rhetoric to yourself. Honest opinions are welcome, but inflammatory posting on either side will shut this down fast. I haven't had the chance to lock any threads yet, so don't think i wont hesitate to shut this one down.

A forum member (also a mod) soliciting creative discussion/opinions whilst threatening thread closure and then placing "rules" on what can or cannot be discussed in said solicitation. That's rich. No wonder there is no traction here.

Maybe i'm naive to think that we can have a rational discussion of these things on OSA, but we shall see.

I guess we can call out people as long it's in general terms. There's a double standard if I ever saw one.

Typical OSA (general call-out)

 

[Dr. HK]

I personally think it was an act of terrorism. Why, because he left a survivor to tell the story. This in my mind is to terrorize people especially when he is on the loose (was). Do I think it is racially motivated? No. However I do not know the true background of the story. I just know that it seems the media and society spins when violence happens white on black it is racially motivated. when violence is black on white it is just random.

 

[Dr. HK]

I might add that the new outlets including Fox called this domestic terrorism. However when the beheading in Moore happened at that food place the term domestic terrorism was never used but shunned. Though to me sympathizing with ISIS and other extreme groups and beheading is domestic terrorism.

 

[Coded-Dude]

Whether or not a misguided religious belief and the violent action taken on behalf of that belief can be related to a political aim is certainly a cloudy subject that could debated until the end of times....

Mental illness is generally always a part of these atrocious acts, but whether or not they are treatable is very questionable. Growing up in a broken home, being taught racist ideas could be considered a mental illness based on the above definition, but can you teach somebody that has these hateful ideas to reverse their thinking when we are bombarded by stereotypes from all facets of life(friends, family, media, government, etc.) day in and day out?

As already stated, but I will expand upon, violence is not just a human condition...it is a fact of life in all forms of life(from micro-organisms to macro-organisms). Prejudices are mostly a human condition as we have the intellect(or rather ignorance) to classify and stereotype anything and everything even if it is under a false pretense. Suppose we were able to eradicate racism, violence would still exist. It is saddening to think about, but cannot be dismissed. Hopefully humanity can improve understanding and acceptance of those things that are alien to us, but fear and ignorance drive many of us to act out in ways that are sometimes unfathomable. Surely there are ways we can address such issues and provide positive gain, but thinking we can end violence by doing foolish things such as disarming people is absurd.

Some of us are predators, some of us are prey(many of us are both in some form or fashion). We will never be able to control the predators in a manner that creates complete safety for the prey. That being said, what actions can we take to limit the ability of the human predator to prey and weaker humans and how can we enable human prey to be better prepared against the predator? Another debate that has no finite answer and the philosophy of it will vary greatly from one generation to the next.


I am 100% positive that the victims in this mass shooting were most certainly terrorized by the actions of this mentally ill, racist young man who was simply acting out of ignorance and hatred.