Let's help HoLeChit pick out a surround sound setup

[HoLeChit]

long story short, I need/want to pick up a surround sound system. Here in a month or two, I will have my tv paid off, and then it's off to build a serious surround sound setup. "But sir, tell me details" you say? Here we go:

It is going in my semi open floor plan living room
I have 12 foot ceilings (I should be able to get length x width measurements if needed, but my living room is biiiig.
Carpeted floors
My room is built so I can mount corner speakers in all 4 corners of the room
I want a 5.1 system for simplicity
I want it to be LOUD. and solid quality. I don't want to get a better sound experience from the system I have in my truck.


I am considering a klipsch reference premier rp-280 series setup with a 15" subwoofer.
And a denon receiver.
http://www.klipsch.com/products/reference-premiere-home-theater-systems

But I do not know for sure. This is a first for me, actually being able to have the space and money to be able to build a quality home theater setup. Do I need a stand alone amp? I want to be able to produce bass that I have to feel like turning down to prevent structural damage to my home. A clear highs, with powerful mids. Will the above mentioned setup meet my needs? Could I get away with building my own subwoofer? I will be using the system for day to day watching in my living room, as well as music, movies, and the occasional video game. I am all about some recommendations and experiences!

 

[Commander Keen]

Two questions:
1) What's your budget?
2) Are you opposed to a build-your-own approach, or do you want a system-in-a-box that includes everything?

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Oh, I think that setup would do just fine. Klipsch makes a solid speaker, especially in their Reference series. I take it from your post you're looking at the whole RP-280 speaker package.

As far as bass, the reciever has nothing to do with the deepest bass; your sub will have a built in amp to power itself.

I used to sell stereo gear and surround systems back in the stone age, and while the tech has changed, some things never do, such as:

If you put three people in a room, demo all the speakers and say "pick the best one", you will get three different responses. Pick the speakers you like.

Don't fall for the "wattage wars". Wattage means very little to sound quality, just volume. Unfortunately, twice the wattage only makes about a 3 db increase in sound, so wringing your hands with worry about 125 wpc, versus 100 wpc is mere mental masturbation. Plus, it only makes a difference at max volume.

Not all watts are the same. Some manufacturers rate the wattage only at 1khz, not the whole frequency range, plus at a much higher level of distortion. Why? So they can put stickers on it that scream "100 Watts x 5" or 7 channels. That's how a receiver that sells for $150 and weighs as much as a damp envelope "specs" as well as a much higher quality machine from someone else.

You can do a lot worse than buying receivers/amps by the pound. Good amps/receivers have big power supplys, large caps, large heatsinks, etc. Those things are heavy. A good receiver/amp will also be heavy.

If you really want to bring the thunder, look into separates. But really, Klipsch speakers are so efficient, a good receiver should provide enough power to annoy the neighbors.

Assuming you stick with a receiver, buy one with more inputs than you think you need. Something will always come along looking for space in your rack. I'm guessing lots of HDMI inputs is the way to go these days, but something newer may have come along.

Like I said, I got out of the industry a while back, and my serious listening is on my dedicated stereo system, which uses (ahem)....separates. From about 1984....and big old Infinity 4 ways. The pre-amp doesn't even have a subwoofer output. It does, however have a great phono section! Remember when I said buy heavy? The amp in that setup is two channels (a+b speakers) and is rated at a whopping 100 wpc. It weighs about 40 lbs by itself. When I see 15 lb receivers claiming to put out 700 watts, I just giggle to myself.

tldr: Your setup will be fine. Klipsch and Denon make good stuff. You can always spend more, but the law of diminishing returns applies.

 

[HoLeChit]

Two questions:
1) What's your budget?
2) Are you opposed to a build-your-own approach, or do you want a system-in-a-box that includes everything?

Budget is under $4k.
I am not, however I definitely need some guidance. My audio experience is entirely putting systems in vehicles, some Sound quality setups, some SPL.

Oh, I think that setup would do just fine. Klipsch makes a solid speaker, especially in their Reference series. I take it from your post you're looking at the whole RP-280 speaker package.

As far as bass, the reciever has nothing to do with the deepest bass; your sub will have a built in amp to power itself.

I used to sell stereo gear and surround systems back in the stone age, and while the tech has changed, some things never do, such as:

If you put three people in a room, demo all the speakers and say "pick the best one", you will get three different responses. Pick the speakers you like.

Don't fall for the "wattage wars". Wattage means very little to sound quality, just volume. Unfortunately, twice the wattage only makes about a 3 db increase in sound, so wringing your hands with worry about 125 wpc, versus 100 wpc is mere mental masturbation. Plus, it only makes a difference at max volume.

Not all watts are the same. Some manufacturers rate the wattage only at 1khz, not the whole frequency range, plus at a much higher level of distortion. Why? So they can put stickers on it that scream "100 Watts x 5" or 7 channels. That's how a receiver that sells for $150 and weighs as much as a damp envelope "specs" as well as a much higher quality machine from someone else.

You can do a lot worse than buying receivers/amps by the pound. Good amps/receivers have big power supplys, large caps, large heatsinks, etc. Those things are heavy. A good receiver/amp will also be heavy.

If you really want to bring the thunder, look into separates. But really, Klipsch speakers are so efficient, a good receiver should provide enough power to annoy the neighbors.

Assuming you stick with a receiver, buy one with more inputs than you think you need. Something will always come along looking for space in your rack. I'm guessing lots of HDMI inputs is the way to go these days, but something newer may have come along.

Like I said, I got out of the industry a while back, and my serious listening is on my dedicated stereo system, which uses (ahem)....separates. From about 1984....and big old Infinity 4 ways. The pre-amp doesn't even have a subwoofer output. It does, however have a great phono section! Remember when I said buy heavy? The amp in that setup is two channels (a+b speakers) and is rated at a whopping 100 wpc. It weighs about 40 lbs by itself. When I see 15 lb receivers claiming to put out 700 watts, I just giggle to myself.

tldr: Your setup will be fine. Klipsch and Denon make good stuff. You can always spend more, but the law of diminishing returns applies.

SUCH GOOD INFORMATION, esp for a guy like me. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the power levels I am looking at with these home theater systems, considering I'm pushing 100w to each door speaker and 1800w at 2 ohms to my sub in my truck. The idea of tower speakers being able to be driven by 30 watts is a bit beyond me at the moment.

I understand the idea of diminishing returns for sure. What kind of separate amp should I look for? What should I consider when shopping around. I am looking at the entire rp280 setup, I like the entire ordeal, and the corner speakers especially.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Budget is under $4k.
I am not, however I definitely need some guidance. My audio experience is entirely putting systems in vehicles, some Sound quality setups, some SPL.



SUCH GOOD INFORMATION, esp for a guy like me. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the power levels I am looking at with these home theater systems, considering I'm pushing 100w to each door speaker and 1800w at 2 ohms to my sub in my truck. The idea of tower speakers being able to be driven by 30 watts is a bit beyond me at the moment.

I understand the idea of diminishing returns for sure. What kind of separate amp should I look for? What should I consider when shopping around. I am looking at the entire rp280 setup, I like the entire ordeal, and the corner speakers especially.

My old separates system has power meters on the amp (old Onkyo Integra stuff). When the power meters hit about 1 watt, it's very "full sounding" (meaning everyone in the house is texting me to "turn it down"). Amps/current moves speaker cones, not watts. My wife's hairdryer has 1000 watts stamped on it, but it couldn't move a damn thing. Amps give the ability to "control" the sound and keep it clean. Loud is useless if it's distorted.

I looked on the Klipsch web site, but I couldn't find the efficiency ratings on the speakers. I'm guessing from previous experience they're rated at 95 or 97 db at 1 watt. Meaning, if you feed them 1 watt of power, they'll produce 95 db or so of volume (at a 1khz test tone). That's about as loud as a jackhammer. Bass requires more power to produce that volume, but the sub is self powered, so...

A 5 channel separates system will blow (or put a really big dent) your budget. Speakers have the greatest impact on sound. Klipsch Reference series can play clean, clear and loud. I don't know how much they're going to run you, but the website indicates they're above $3k. I know that's BS compared to what you're going to pay at "street prices", but I'd focus on them if you like the sound.

 

[Mos Eisley]

...From about 1984....and big old Infinity 4 ways...

I wouldn't trade my 1988 Infinity 4 ways for anything on the market today. I just don't hear the same sound as what comes out of those giant cabinets.

 

[bigfug]

Look at Polk as well. I get emails from them all the time offering 50% off. If you look around the holidays, Super Bowl Sunday, Memorial, etc, you should find the same deals on Klipsch from the big box stores.

 

[Jeff405]

I'm interested in the results. Sorry I can't help, I'm still rocking a two channel Pioneer receiver and three way Technics 10's all built in 1994. Lol

 

[tRidiot]

That Klipsch system would rock, for sure. You'll need a good receiver to pair it with. Although you are only running 5.1, you might consider a receiver that does 7.1 - my Denon runs 5.1 inside, but will run a second source on the other 2 channels, which I have set up outside on my patio. This way, the kids or whomever can be watching TV inside, while we are listening to music outside. Or you can run the same source - we did this on election night and listened to the news coverage while sitting out having a few drinks - and a few more, and a few more. lol But I can tell you it is really nice to have a second source out there. If I do things just right, I can run the audio from my computer, and I can even control music selection, volume, playlist, etc. from my phone using VLC.

If you want truly Earth-shattering bass, though, I think you'll do better looking into a home cabinet build. The Klipsch you are looking at will be loud, but personally, if I were spending that kind of money on speakers alone, I think I would go a different route. Either build-your-own from Parts Express, or something from PSB, maybe. Actually, I love towers for front speakers, then surrounds for rear - allows you to really maximize your system for music, which I want to have a true soundstage. Unless it's recorded specifically for multi-channel systems, most music (in stereo) is going to lose all sense of stage on a 5.1 system. Again, my opinion.

I actually have a (car) subwoofer sitting around right now that many folks have used in building their own cabinet sub and it is a beast. It's a JBL W15GTI, I have been putting off taking pictures and putting it on Craigslist. lol. There are also plenty of designs out there to build your own cabinet around a set of smaller speakers. Something like Exodus Anarchy midbasses in a tapped horn. You don't get Earth-shattering bass from that, but impressive output out of small speakers - and a helluva lot better than that Bose shite! Please, please, please, PLEASE don't go for Bose. EVAR. I recommend AGAINST the Home Theater in a Box setups as well, but some people want the simplicity - it sounds to me like you are looking for much more than that.

Good for you!

 

[Larry Morgan]

My friend has older Klipsch RF-7 towers in front, and cheaper Klipsch towers in back to fill out the surround. The fronts are the most accurate, precise speakers I've ever heard in person. I have Polk Monitor 60s, and they are pretty good, and often have sales going on.

One of the biggest things I'd think about, personally, is Klipsch speakers have horn-loaded tweeters, versus something like a Polk speaker with a standard tweeter. The horns are fantastic at reproducing high frequencies, but they are very directional. The quality of the sound will fall off if you don't sit in just the right place. This can be mitigated by having the speakers farther back, but it's still gonna happen. My polk speakers sound about the same no matter where I am, but that "same" isn't as good as the Klipsch speaker's best by a long shot.

When you get those speakers, they are going to have two sets of lugs connected together with bus-bars. If you get a good amp, it will have bi-amp capability, which is what that is for. You pull out those bus bars, and it will split the audio into appropriate frequency ranges for the different drivers in your speakers. This will give you even better reproduction of the sound.

For receiver, I'd recommend Yamaha. I can't say others aren't as good, but I do know Yamaha makes some very good stuff. I have an Onkyo that's about to take a trip out the window. Fracking HDMI switcher is going out on it.

As tRidiot says, the only way to get amazing bass is a home built sub. Particularly an IB sub (infinite baffle). Without something like that, I always find floor subs to be very boomy and during movies and such seems to just add really uncontrolled bass noise. I just helped the aforementioned friend build an IB sub in his attic. 4 x 18"s in a 1.5" plywood cabinet with 2k watts. It will rattle every window if you want, but when you appropriately match it to what you are listening to, it's amazing how well it fills out. A lot of people crank the bass up way too high because it feels/sounds cool. Ideally it just fills out the low end of the frequency range.