TCSO: Deputy shouldn't be charged because he confused his weapons (video)

[Foghorn]

This is not an age issue. It's a training issue. Reports state he exited his vehicle with a pepper ball gun and a gun in his hands. If your "less lethal" you shouldn't have lethal options in your hands at the same time. That's how this crap happens.. after the bart shooting in cali a few years ago, tazer changed thier training to have the tazer cross draw instead of in a thigh rig on the same side as your duty weapon.
While it's ok to carry lethal and less lethal, you should not ever deploy them at the same time.
This guy had too may options in his hands and simply hosed it up.
Negligent homicide is an option but I doubt they'll get a jury to convict.

Nothing screams poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape

 

[_CY_]

looks like Tulsa is making national news .. for the wrong reason

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/oklahoma-police-shooting-captured-on-body-camera/

 

[jfssms]

I'm confident the old guy tried to do his best, the young mouthy buck really showed his colors.

 

[caojyn]

Tulsa pd is making sure to distance itself

Tulsa-Reserve Officer Robert Bates works for the Tulsa County Sheriff. There is no relation between the Tulsa Police Department, a municipal police agency, and the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office.

Although the shooting took place in Tulsa, the Tulsa Police Department was not involved in the operation leading up to the shooting, the shooting itself nor the investigation of the shooting.

Robert Bates has no current affiliation with the Tulsa Police Department and has not had any in 50 years. Bates briefly worked for the Police Department from January 1964 to January 1965.

Additionally, Mr. Jim Clark, a consultant for the Tulsa County Sheriff, does not represent the Tulsa Police Department nor has the Tulsa Police Department conducted an assessment of this incident.

These distinctions are made due to inaccurate facts that have been circulated; the Tulsa Police Department and the City of Tulsa has no involvement in this incident or any recourse for corrective measures. Please direct any inquires about this incident to the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office or to Tulsa County.

 

[Kyle78]

I don't see how age was a factor. People would be surprised how old the police force is, and how much Reserve Officers do. Especially in smaller offices.
It appears to be a stress induced accident. I don't know how the Deputy had his duty belt setup, but I've seen Officers wearing Tasers next to their guns.
After a couple accidents just like this, every one I know of moved to a cross draw to prevent this type of accident from happening.
Also there is a reason you practice drawing your gun/tazer, gotta train up your muscle memory.

 

[dennishoddy]

I don't see how age was a factor. People would be surprised how old the police force is, and how much Reserve Officers do. Especially in smaller offices.
It appears to be a stress induced accident. I don't know how the Deputy had his duty belt setup, but I've seen Officers wearing Tasers next to their guns.
After a couple accidents just like this, every one I know of moved to a cross draw to prevent this type of accident from happening.
Also there is a reason you practice drawing your gun/tazer, gotta train up your muscle memory.

I don't disagree the 99% of what you said.

What I do disagree with is the statement that "every one I know moved to a cross draw".

Why isn't this the standard across LEO agencies if it has happened in the past as the TPD and You have alluded to?

 

[jfssms]

Kyle, from a law enforcement stand point what's up with this statement.... Fukc your breathing.....and so on?

 

[Quick_Draw_McGraw]

So I read the Tulsa World Article

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/video-of-fatal-shooting-by-reserve-deputy-shown-at-sheriff/article_9d77cce0-75e6-5ddf-a782-cf048ad4064b.html?mode=story

Here are the things that jump right out at me.

Bates exited the vehicle, with a weapon in each hand. What on earth for? You can't accurately work any weapon one handed. A pepper ball gun is in his left hand, which is obviously not his dominant hand for shooting, so why would you be carrying a weapon in your non dominant hand?. He also has a gun in his right hand. His gun shouldn't be drawn if he's not capable of controlling it with both hands.

He's in plain clothes. On the surface that doesn't seem like a big deal, except for the fact that it leads one to consider that he may not have been wearing a gun belt. If he isn't wearing a gun belt then there is no telling how his gear is setup. Did he even have an external holster for that gun? Might explain why he ran out with a weapon in each hand. Also if it's not a duty belt then things may not be in the same place. Officers train with their equipment in the same place specifically so they have muscle memory under stress, so your gun is always the same motion. If he thought he had holstered his gun and drawn his taser, it leads me to believe that he was used to carrying them side by side, both setup for drawing with the dominant hand? I'm not LEO, but I've usually observed if LEO does have a gun and a taser on the same side it's usually setup in a cross draw pattern, meaning that the tazer faces the wrong direction for you to pull it out with you dominant hand, you have to draw it out with your non dominant hand, reaching across your body to get it.

A revolver like he has is not police issue. Most police forces don't issue revolvers, and if they do they sure aren't little .38s like that. Snub nosed pistols are horrible to aim with, and are extremely inaccurate. They are meant as self defense weapons to be used in close range, usually under 10 ft. No one has any business using that in police duties because if you were called into ever needing to use it, your a danger if you try to engage a bad guy out past 10 feet. Correct me if I'm wrong but a reserve TPD officer has to carry a department issued gun. You don't just get to "bring your favorite gun to work" like you apparently can as a reserve Sheriffs officer.

So back to him having two weapons out when this started. So what happened to the pepper ball gun? Did he lay it on the ground? Did he attempt (think) that he was going to holster his gun with one hand, and then unholster his tazer with the same hand while holding the pepper ball gun? Did he intend to shoot his tazer one handed? I mean tons of bad things happen if you are only using one hand.

I just see so many things this guy was doing wrong. I get that mistakes happen, and I get lack of training, but seriously so many errors right out of the gate on this one. If you make THAT MANY mistakes, then you probably have been making mistakes for a while. This guy had to be an obvious liability before this.

 

[Kyle78]

I don't disagree the 99% of what you said.

What I do disagree with is the statement that "every one I know moved to a cross draw".

Why isn't this the standard across LEO agencies if it has happened in the past as the TPD and You have alluded to?

There is no state "standard" on how duty belts are setup. I know of a few agencies that require Less lethal weapons to be on opposite side of duty weapon, but then most agencies have no rules pertaining to duty belt setup. It's highly personalized depending on the officer. All Taser/Pepper gun trainings I have been to recommended a across draw to negate this type of accident. Once again practicing in front of a mirror drawing your weapons/equipment is necessary to train up muscle memory and your "primitive" part of your brain. You need it to become instinct. Stressful incident's shut down all of your cognitive functions, and you revert back to "instinct". Every one that carries a gun should be practicing this.

 

[Kyle78]

Kyle, from a law enforcement stand point what's up with this statement.... Fukc your breathing.....and so on?

Heat of the moment.