The problem with SYG.

[Glocktogo]

So basically what you're doing is starting from the premise "a black dude would never have to shoot a white dude in self defense" and cloaking yourself in pseudointellectualism to not sound racist.

You're the one who started in with the pseudointellectualism. Your premise appears to be that blacks are disproportionately shot using SYG, therefore the law is racist. So are you saying that blacks need protection from law abiding citizens while they perpetrate crimes? Are you insinuating that black people are inherently more criminal than non-blacks? That as a protected class, blacks should be immune from self-defense claims?

What exactly is your point, because you really don't seem to have one?

 

[poopgiggle]

I just want to see cases where where a black defender had a valid case of SYG against a white aggressor and was convicted.
Or cases where a white defender had an invalid case of SYG against a black aggressor and was acquitted.

You might say the Zimmerman case was an example of the second one. The facts were pretty sketchy, and the trial basically came down to "the state can't prove anything."

But that's more about self defense doctrine, which predates SYG. What I'm talking about is the cops on the scene saying "it was a good shoot, run along now" or arresting & possibly charging the defender. There was a news story about a black dude shooting a white kid in a situation that was pretty unambiguously a good shoot, and having to go through a trial. I'll dig it up when I'm done airporting for the day.

That makes it appear that you have an agenda driven argument.

What do you think my agenda could be? I'm posting on a gun forum and I've already said that I support stand your ground laws in principle.

 

[poopgiggle]

Your premise appears to be that blacks are disproportionately shot using SYG, therefore the law is racist.

Saying the law is "racist" is an oversimplification. It could have been passed with the very best of intentions, and it probably was, and still affect people of different races differently.

So are you saying that blacks need protection from law abiding citizens while they perpetrate crimes? Are you insinuating that black people are inherently more criminal than non-blacks? That as a protected class, blacks should be immune from self-defense claims?

What exactly is your point, because you really don't seem to have one?

OOOOOKAY I'm not sure how you're getting any of that from my posts but whatever.

My point is that SYG laws, as most of them are currently written, hinge on the perception of law enforcement at the scene. I don't like that, because it's pretty easy to see how racial bias colors people's perceptions. I'm not saying that people are consciously thinking "that negro done murdered that guy, negros always shootin people" but it does happen at a subconscious level.

I would like to see a rubric written into the law that classifies a good or bad shoot. Objective criteria should help take all the fuzzy stuff like perception and bias out of it. Granted, I have no idea what that would be.

 

[Glocktogo]

Saying the law is "racist" is an oversimplification. It could have been passed with the very best of intentions, and it probably was, and still affect people of different races differently.

OOOOOKAY I'm not sure how you're getting any of that from my posts but whatever.

My point is that SYG laws, as most of them are currently written, hinge on the perception of law enforcement at the scene. I don't like that, because it's pretty easy to see how racial bias colors people's perceptions. I'm not saying that people are consciously thinking "that negro done murdered that guy, negros always shootin people" but it does happen at a subconscious level.

I would like to see a rubric written into the law that classifies a good or bad shoot. Objective criteria should help take all the fuzzy stuff like perception and bias out of it. Granted, I have no idea what that would be.

I may have misunderstood you then. I don't see any way to give investigators the flexibility to process the nuances of a post-shooting investigation while adhering to a rigid rubrick or formula on how to objectively process it. There are far too many unaccountable variables that may be introduced.

The key to an effective SYG law is public knowledge of what it is and what it isn't. If there appears to be racial bias in an investigation, that's where a higher authority (OSBI, FBI, DoJ, etc.) would need to come in.

 

[twoguns?]

You might say the Zimmerman case was an example of the second one. The facts were pretty sketchy, and the trial basically came down to "the state can't prove anything."


Zim wasnt white, Bro....Dang are the "true facts" not out yet?

 

[0311]

Rodriguez, a retired firefighter who'd had enough of drunken next door neighbors blasting their stereo pulled a boner when he dinged Mr. Obnoxious. Did you see that video Rodriguez recorded of those drunks? Man! How could a person live next door to people like that? Raul, the Man, should have put his place up for sale and moved out here to the country. I remember having neigbors when I was a kid that lived in a house 50' away, their dad and my dad had on ongoing fued, and I swore I'd never have close in neighbors when I started my family. When I was in the Suck, they called me "Sgt Tightwad" because I saved all my direct deposits. Bought my little place on five acres here with cash I saved and I have no neighbor problems. Rodriguez was a ding dong, hot tempered man who'd had enough of the city life and close in neigbors and didn't have the good sense to leave that scenerio. Maybe a lot of people like having neighbors so close in that they can hear them fart, but not this Papa-San...

 

[okietom]

Sometimes I wonder which side has the biggest fools, pro-gun or anti-gun.

There are fools on both sides but in today's world the biggest ones have no guns.

 

[okietom]

You might say the Zimmerman case was an example of the second one. The facts were pretty sketchy, and the trial basically came down to "the state can't prove anything."


Zim wasnt white, Bro....Dang are the "true facts" not out yet?

I watched most of the trial and the reason the state couldn't prove their case was that there was no evidence. All of the evidence showed self defense.

It was not a case of muder and the state didn't prove it, it was a case of self defense and the prosecution had a political motivation. That was to pander to black voters and get Angela Corey re elected.

 

[twoguns?]

I watched most of the trial and the reason the state couldn't prove their case was that there was no evidence. All of the evidence showed self defense.

It was not a case of muder and the state didn't prove it, it was a case of self defense and the prosecution had a political motivation. That was to pander to black voters and get Angela Corey re elected.

Theres always an agenda, ya just gotta look to see which one you want to read about...

 

[okietom]

Theres always an agenda, ya just gotta look to see which one you want to read about...

She was given this case during her campaign and was told by Ben Crump that she would get no black votes if there was no trial. There was a grand jury ready to hear the case and she did not take the case to them. She was re elected.