Daniel Shaver shooting

[NikatKimber]

Plus the constant interlacing of commands with the threat of "If'n youze makes a miztake, Ima gonna keel you!"

I can't imagine ANY situation where constant threat of death will EVER de-escalate.

The guy was OBVIOUSLY trying to comply. There was also, despite denial, some impairment. Note that the guy was having difficulty identifying his left leg when instructed to cross left leg over right leg.

IMO, this was a better case for 1st degree than some of the civilian shootings, such as Jerome Ersland.

Officers - who had a desire to shoot someone; note "You're ****ed" engraving - deliberately, continually, and unnecessarily issued complex commands to an obviously impaired yet compliant subject until the subject was no longer able, or failed, to comply; and immediately shot him dead.

 

[Frederick]

Plus the constant interlacing of commands with the threat of "If'n youze makes a miztake, Ima gonna keel you!"

I can't imagine ANY situation where constant threat of death will EVER de-escalate.

The guy was OBVIOUSLY trying to comply. There was also, despite denial, some impairment. Note that the guy was having difficulty identifying his left leg when instructed to cross left leg over right leg.

IMO, this was a better case for 1st degree than some of the civilian shootings, such as Jerome Ersland.

Officers - who had a desire to shoot someone; note "You're ****ed" engraving - deliberately, continually, and unnecessarily issued complex commands to an obviously impaired yet compliant subject until the subject was no longer able, or failed, to comply; and immediately shot him dead.

I feel like they went overboard as well -- not just issuing commands as necessary, but not doing so in a professional manner.

 

[Glocktogo]

I don't understand why the judge would not allow the body cam footage to be presented in evidence?
I read about a lot of acquittals and appeals that overturn convictions because judges didn't allow certain evidence into the trial.
Bias on the judge's part?
Agree I'd sue the hell out of everybody involved including the janitor at the PD on this one.

Lets just call it what it is, accessory after the fact. That judge prejudiced the jury to acquit, because you can't have the unwashed masses casting judgement on the lawgivers.

As to the Sgt., he forgot to say "Simon Says"...

BTW, the here's the tactical timmy wannabe with the Spike's encrusted "You're ****ed" port cover equipped AR:

Something tells me this wasn't his first and won't be his last incident.

 

[Frederick]

Something tells me this wasn't his first and won't be his last incident.

He was terminated by the Mesa police dept.

the Sgt. retired 4 months after the murder, reportedly, and retired to somewhere in the caribbean(hearsay).

 

[deerwhacker444]

He was terminated by the Mesa police dept.

the Sgt. retired 4 months after the murder, reportedly, and retired to somewhere in the caribbean(hearsay).

He was terminated by Mesa, but he'll end up in some Jerkwater little town just like the town I grew up in. Some place that needs good Leos, but can't compete with big cities for wages. We usually had cops that had some taint about them. Most would stay for 1-2 years, just long enough to gloss over some earlier transgression, then they'd jump off to larger locales.

This guy should be in jail.

 

[Frederick]

He was terminated by Mesa, but he'll end up in some Jerkwater little town just like the town I grew up in. Some place that needs good Leos, but can't compete with big cities for wages. We usually had cops that had some taint about them. Most would stay for 1-2 years, just long enough to gloss over some earlier transgression, then they'd jump off to larger locales.

This guy should be in jail.

I think this guys' transgression is a little bit more known than the other tainted folks.

I mean, you google his name and there is his face!

I don't think any police department wants to deal with that.

I don't know if things have changed, but usually you're asked if you've ever been arrested, had contact with the police or been charged with a crime when you apply to become a police officer.

If he lied, it would come out pretty fast. If he told the truth, i wouldn't be surprised if they tried for a more clean slate.

I agree, he should be doing life. and the Sgt. should be doing manslaughter.

 

[C_Hallbert]

I really hate this thread and was trying to stay away, but its still bothering me. My problem is that some people approve of the Police Tactics used as this tragedy played out. What makes it even worse is among those who supported the shooting, not one suggested any concern or conscience for the killing of an innocent young man. This fact above all else should concern everyone.

Repeatedly, among experienced Officers and others who approved the decision to shoot, there were references to the movement of the subject’s hands that presenting a possible threat that he might be reaching for a weapon. Apparently, the Protocol now used in training legitimatizes the use of Deadly Force when a subject moves in a suspicious or sudden manner without the visualization or known presence of a weapon in a High Risk Situation. So, in this case the Police Protocol Killed an innocent person who in actuality did not present a threat to anyone.....well, anyone except himself. Hey, and now there is no issue to bother anyone’s conscience! Glad that’s settled.

A physician I worked with for about twenty five years once remarked about the increasing use of Protocols in medicine. He said, “Protocols seem good because they do not require people to have to think. “Ah, but is that really a good thing?” “It’s because after a while people forget what it is that they’re doing.” (Michael Boyer, MD). I believe that this describes the situation in this discussion.

Since the Police Protocol justifies this shoot, let’s change the participants but keep everything else the same: Now, the frightened, confused subject being ordered around is the Police Chief’s son. Would the the responding Officers have handled it the same?: or, a 13 y.o. boy?; a 7 y.o. boy?; one of the responding Officer’s brothers?; your own son? If you still approve of this shooting, you are an idiot that needs a Protocol for everything (probably even sex). Police are not robots. The best Officers are those that are intelligent, perceptive, courageous, caring and merciful. I didn’t see any of these traits displayed in the video. The High Risk (Deadly Force) Protocol is intended to improve Officer Safety. Apparently, once it went into effect, it did not adjust to the obvious demeanor of the subject or the conditions as they evolved. The Protocol failed the victim, the responding Officers, and our society.

I recall another Police Shooting of a 90+ y.o. Black WWII Veteran in Georgia. His daughter decided that it was time for him to leave his house and go to a Nursing Home. He refused and told her to leave. She engaged the assistance of Social Services and a Professional Social Worker accompanied the daughter on the next visit. They informed him that he had to comply and that they would return with the authorities to make him go. He got his shotgun, showed it to them (not pointing it at them) closed and locked the door. The Professional Social Worker called 911 and reported that the old gentleman had a gun and had barricaded himself in his home. SWAT arrived.....broke through the door and SHOT HIM DEAD!!! Oh, and ‘Thanks old man for your Service to our Country.’ While we’re at it lets have a big hand and THANKS FOR THE SERVICES OF THE SWAT TEAM TO THE COMMUNITY!!!!!


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[CHenry]

I really hate this thread and was trying to stay away, but its still bothering me. My problem is that some people approve of the Police Tactics used as this tragedy played out. What makes it even worse is among those who supported the shooting, not one suggested any concern or conscience for the killing of an innocent young man. This fact above all else should concern everyone.

Repeatedly, among experienced Officers and others who approved the decision to shoot, there were references to the movement of the subject’s hands that presenting a possible threat that he might be reaching for a weapon. Apparently, the Protocol now used in training legitimatizes the use of Deadly Force when a subject moves in a suspicious or sudden manner without the visualization or known presence of a weapon in a High Risk Situation. So, in this case the Police Protocol Killed an innocent person who in actuality did not present a threat to anyone.....well, anyone except himself. Hey, and now there is no issue to bother anyone’s conscience! Glad that’s settled.

A physician I worked with for about twenty five years once remarked about the increasing use of Protocols in medicine. He said, “Protocols seem good because they do not require people to have to think. “Ah, but is that really a good thing?” “It’s not because after a while people forget what it is that they’re doing.” (Michael Boyer, MD). I believe that this describes the situation in this discussion.

Since the Police Protocol justifies this shoot, let’s change the participants but keep everything else the same: Now, the frightened, confused subject being ordered around is the Police Chief’s son. Would the the responding Officers have handled it the same?: or, a 13 y.o. boy?; a 7 y.o. boy?; one of the responding Officer’s brothers?; your own son? If you still approve of this shooting, you are an idiot that needs a Protocol for everything (probably even sex). Police are not robots. The best Officers are those that are intelligent, perceptive, courageous, caring and merciful. I didn’t see any of these traits displayed in the video. The High Risk (Deadly Force) Protocol is intended to improve Officer Safety. Apparently, once it went into effect, it did not adjust to the obvious demeanor of the subject or the conditions as they evolved. The Protocol failed the victim, the responding Officers, and our society.

I recall another Police Shooting of a 90+ y.o. Black WWII Veteran in Georgia. His daughter decided that it was time for him to leave his house and go to a Nursing Home. He refused and told her to leave. She engaged the assistance of Social Services and a Professional Social Worker accompanied the daughter on the next visit. They informed him that he had to comply and that they would return with the authorities to make him go. He got his shotgun, showed it to them (not pointing it at them) closed and locked the door. The Professional Social Worker called 911 and reported that the old gentleman had a gun and had barricaded himself in his home. SWAT arrived.....broke through the door and SHOT HIM DEAD!!! Oh, and ‘Thanks old man for your Service to our Country.’ While we’re at it lets have a big hand and THANKS FOR THE SERVICES OF THE SWAT TEAM TO THE COMMUNITY!!!!!


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[rc508pir]

I really hate this thread and was trying to stay away, but its still bothering me. My problem is that some people approve of the Police Tactics used as this tragedy played out. What makes it even worse is among those who supported the shooting, not one suggested any concern or conscience for the killing of an innocent young man. This fact above all else should concern everyone.

Repeatedly, among experienced Officers and others who approved the decision to shoot, there were references to the movement of the subject’s hands that presenting a possible threat that he might be reaching for a weapon. Apparently, the Protocol now used in training legitimatizes the use of Deadly Force when a subject moves in a suspicious or sudden manner without the visualization or known presence of a weapon in a High Risk Situation. So, in this case the Police Protocol Killed an innocent person who in actuality did not present a threat to anyone.....well, anyone except himself. Hey, and now there is no issue to bother anyone’s conscience! Glad that’s settled.

A physician I worked with for about twenty five years once remarked about the increasing use of Protocols in medicine. He said, “Protocols seem good because they do not require people to have to think. “Ah, but is that really a good thing?” “It’s not because after a while people forget what it is that they’re doing.” (Michael Boyer, MD). I believe that this describes the situation in this discussion.

Since the Police Protocol justifies this shoot, let’s change the participants but keep everything else the same: Now, the frightened, confused subject being ordered around is the Police Chief’s son. Would the the responding Officers have handled it the same?: or, a 13 y.o. boy?; a 7 y.o. boy?; one of the responding Officer’s brothers?; your own son? If you still approve of this shooting, you are an idiot that needs a Protocol for everything (probably even sex). Police are not robots. The best Officers are those that are intelligent, perceptive, courageous, caring and merciful. I didn’t see any of these traits displayed in the video. The High Risk (Deadly Force) Protocol is intended to improve Officer Safety. Apparently, once it went into effect, it did not adjust to the obvious demeanor of the subject or the conditions as they evolved. The Protocol failed the victim, the responding Officers, and our society.

I recall another Police Shooting of a 90+ y.o. Black WWII Veteran in Georgia. His daughter decided that it was time for him to leave his house and go to a Nursing Home. He refused and told her to leave. She engaged the assistance of Social Services and a Professional Social Worker accompanied the daughter on the next visit. They informed him that he had to comply and that they would return with the authorities to make him go. He got his shotgun, showed it to them (not pointing it at them) closed and locked the door. The Professional Social Worker called 911 and reported that the old gentleman had a gun and had barricaded himself in his home. SWAT arrived.....broke through the door and SHOT HIM DEAD!!! Oh, and ‘Thanks old man for your Service to our Country.’ While we’re at it lets have a big hand and THANKS FOR THE SERVICES OF THE SWAT TEAM TO THE COMMUNITY!!!!!


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That's some pretty messed up **** there.

 

[Glocktogo]

He was terminated by the Mesa police dept.

the Sgt. retired 4 months after the murder, reportedly, and retired to somewhere in the caribbean(hearsay).

I read the Sgt. retired to the Phillipines. As for Ofc. Tackleberry, he'll land somewhere and cause issues for someone else.