Had some interesting discussions last night at dinner with some friends.
Anyone here running CNG in a vehicle?
What are your thoughts/impressions?
Anyone here running CNG in a vehicle?
What are your thoughts/impressions?
I was talking with one of the sales guys at the Volvo dealership
BTW, his name is Will, if anyone is interested. Good guy. Good salesman. Knows his products and is and a man of his word
Anyway, we were discussing Natural Gas conversions. He said that the conversion process for your engine usually ran around a grand.
Drawback is that there are very few places that have natural gas. I think that he said there are only 4 stations in OKC that can accomodate natural gas vehicles.
I was unclear if the conversion was one way or reversible.
I think that Natural Gas is around .90 cents/gal. Don't know what type of mileage you get. But at that rate, you only have to burn 300 gallons to be on the plus side for the conversion. Assuming your mileage is similar.
Dave
BTW, his name is Will, if anyone is interested. Good guy. Good salesman. Knows his products and is and a man of his word
Anyway, we were discussing Natural Gas conversions. He said that the conversion process for your engine usually ran around a grand.
Drawback is that there are very few places that have natural gas. I think that he said there are only 4 stations in OKC that can accomodate natural gas vehicles.
I was unclear if the conversion was one way or reversible.
I think that Natural Gas is around .90 cents/gal. Don't know what type of mileage you get. But at that rate, you only have to burn 300 gallons to be on the plus side for the conversion. Assuming your mileage is similar.
Dave
He's a little off.
Mileage is the same.
The price is $1.10 a gallon and is set for a year. You can fill at your home with the right equipment. The conversions are running $12k-$15k, BUT, if you do a 100% conversion you get it all back in credits from the state and feds. If you go 50/50 you get 50% credit.
The fuel stations are a partial issue, as is the fluctuation of natural gas from state to state(it's $2 something in Texas).
The tank is a little bit of a pain, but in a truck it isn't too bad.
It burns cleaner though, and with the home fueling setup you are never at the mercy of the local gas retailers. I am getting ready to build the cost spreadsheet to see how it would work out for me, I drive almost 40k a year.
I have been driving a 2002 Chev. Caviler that runs on CNG since June '07.
My car will run on CNG or regular gasoline. It has a full size gasoline tank and a 4.5 gallon CNG tank.
My daily commute is 120+ miles per day.
Mileage on CNG and gasoline is right at 30mpg.
CNG is priced at 90.9 cents per "gallon"
When gasoline was 3$ per gallon my fuel cost per day was aprox. 12$ per day, now it is around 4$ per day.
Slightly less power (as in climbing hills) on CNG.
The combination of small tank, and the filling system being pressure rather than gravity results in my having to get fuel (CNG) at least once per day, sometimes 2 or 3.
Overall I am very pleased with my my choice to go CNG, or course a big plus for me is that there are 3 fueling points along my commute, one about 10 miles from my house, one almost exactly 1/2 way between home and work and one in the town where I work.
My car will run on CNG or regular gasoline. It has a full size gasoline tank and a 4.5 gallon CNG tank.
My daily commute is 120+ miles per day.
Mileage on CNG and gasoline is right at 30mpg.
CNG is priced at 90.9 cents per "gallon"
When gasoline was 3$ per gallon my fuel cost per day was aprox. 12$ per day, now it is around 4$ per day.
Slightly less power (as in climbing hills) on CNG.
The combination of small tank, and the filling system being pressure rather than gravity results in my having to get fuel (CNG) at least once per day, sometimes 2 or 3.
Overall I am very pleased with my my choice to go CNG, or course a big plus for me is that there are 3 fueling points along my commute, one about 10 miles from my house, one almost exactly 1/2 way between home and work and one in the town where I work.
I was looking at doing this to my car as there is a ONG station just up the street from my house with pumps right out front and as long as there is someone working there you can go in and tell them you need to fill up and they turn it on for you.
Pretty much all the ONG trucks here in Enid run on it and when I got to work on the garage doors of the main building I asked about it. They told me its pretty much 0.91 cents a gallon and most of their trucks have a 10 gallon NG tank and a 10 gallon reg gas tank and they can run off of either but as long as they keep the truck filled up with NG they never even have to use the reg gas.
Pretty much all the ONG trucks here in Enid run on it and when I got to work on the garage doors of the main building I asked about it. They told me its pretty much 0.91 cents a gallon and most of their trucks have a 10 gallon NG tank and a 10 gallon reg gas tank and they can run off of either but as long as they keep the truck filled up with NG they never even have to use the reg gas.
Thanks for the feedback, I think the $1.10 is what they are speculating the price will be next year, sorry for the confusion.
In my case I would have a 20+ gallon tank.
The guy I talked to doing the conversions said that they can now tune the motor to have almost the same power, down a percentage or two but pretty close.
CNG vehicles aren't anything new. Argentina has almost a third of their vehicles running on it. I'm surprised that Devon and Chesapeake aren't pushing more CNG fueling stations for municipalities and fleets in OK. It's our most abundant energy resource and we have a surplus in OK.
Boone Pickens is a big proponent of CNG in vehicles. He says we need to take gas out of electrical generation and move it to transportation. He took a company he owns public a few months ago that builds fueling stations in exchange for long-term contracts with ports and municipalities.
One problem I see is the tax implications. I read the other day that Gov. schwarzenegger is in hot water because he had converted his Hummer to CNG and encouraged others to do the same. Now the state claims he has been avoiding fuel taxes and he is negotiating a settlement. Something to think about.
Boone Pickens is a big proponent of CNG in vehicles. He says we need to take gas out of electrical generation and move it to transportation. He took a company he owns public a few months ago that builds fueling stations in exchange for long-term contracts with ports and municipalities.
One problem I see is the tax implications. I read the other day that Gov. schwarzenegger is in hot water because he had converted his Hummer to CNG and encouraged others to do the same. Now the state claims he has been avoiding fuel taxes and he is negotiating a settlement. Something to think about.
The guy I spoke with is actually working with Aubrey on the Chesapeake owned vehicles for CNG conversions. Devon is in the discussions as well.
Boone is part of the difference in price for gas in OK versus TX from what I was told. I guess he controls a good portion in TX and prices it at a delta to gasoline as in 30-40% less than gas.
My Dad ran his work truck on propane back in the 60's, yes it has been around for awhile.
Part of the current expense/issues surround potential inspection of the conversion, there are cheaper routes but as this industry grows you may have a conversion that won't pass inspections, so you want to have all of the certifications in place to be legit.
For me it looks like the break even point on a 50/50 conversion is around 40k-50k miles. As my current ride has about 70k on it I don't see myself keeping it long enough to make money on the deal, I will wait and convert the next new one I buy.
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