I have a Thumlers Tumbler I use for cleaning. I use the brass media and dishwashing soap. I get nice looking brass not super shiny. No big deal I am being lazy. But his batch I cannot get clean. The water is really dirty and the brass looks horrible, if you wipe it off with a rag it looks great but it just seems like the residue is just gummed up on the cases where as usually no problem. I am pretty sure I have cleaned my cases after shooting lead before, so I don't know? I used the tumbler for three hour and they looked bad so I rinsed everything off and went overnight still bad this morning?? I thought Lemi Shine and cream of tarter were for shine? Correct me if I am wrong. It just seems like I need something more powerful than soap this time. Thanks