NAA 22 revolver

[_CY_]

wait a minute now... under ANY situation????

I'd take a .22 mag NAA over nothing anyday!

by the way .22 mag ammo tend to be higher $$ so have better quality controls. which IMHO is the main issue with .22LR ammo purchased in bulk like the infamous Remington .22LR from wallyworld. I've gotten 50+ duds out of a brick.

but with quality .22LR or .22mag ... I've yet to experience FTF due to primer failure anymore than center fire ammo.

so yes.. any ammo can fail due to primer not igniting... but going by first hand experience over a number of years, over thousands of rounds. failure to fire due to primer failure is about the same for centerfire and quality .22 rimfire.

naturally your mileage my veri... but that's been my experience
I'm very comfortable with .22 mag ammo firing reliably. by the way, anyone that's going to carry ANY type of ammo for self defense... needs to have shot a fair amount of EXACT same ammo to establish point of impact and reliability.

which leads to one HUGE advantage of NAA and inherent with all revolvers vs small auto's. with cost of self defensive ammo ... how many folks pay say $30 per 20 rounds to actually shoot say a few hundred rounds to establish feed reliability for small auto's?

There are several problems with relying on one for self-defense (in any situation).

 

[atchman]

I agree!!! I'd take a .22 mag NAA over nothing anyday!

 

[flatwins]

I agree!!! I'd take a .22 mag NAA over nothing anyday!

Not to mention they are a high quality and just plain cool little gun. I can appreciate the craftsmanship in them.

 

[ez bake]

wait a minute now... under ANY situation????

I'd take a .22 mag NAA over nothing anyday!

by the way .22 mag ammo tend to be higher $$ so have better quality controls. which IMHO is the main issue with .22LR ammo purchased in bulk like the infamous Remington .22LR from wallyworld. I've gotten 50+ duds out of a brick.

but with quality .22LR or .22mag ... I've yet to experience FTF due to primer failure anymore than center fire ammo.

so yes.. any ammo can fail due to primer not igniting... but going by first hand experience over a number of years, over thousands of rounds. failure to fire due to primer failure is about the same for centerfire and quality .22 rimfire.

naturally your mileage my veri... but that's been my experience
I'm very comfortable with .22 mag ammo firing reliably. by the way, anyone that's going to carry ANY type of ammo for self defense... needs to have shot a fair amount of EXACT same ammo to establish point of impact and reliability.

which leads to one HUGE advantage of NAA and inherent with all revolvers vs small auto's. with cost of self defensive ammo ... how many folks pay say $30 per 20 rounds to actually shoot say a few hundred rounds to establish feed reliability for small auto's?

My points all still stand.

I said there are several problems with relying on the NAA .22 mag revolver for self-defense (and then listed them in order). All of those problems are still valid - including the fact that rimfire ammo is still not as reliable as center-fire (no matter what the price is).

I'm curious as to how many rounds of .22 mag you've shot that you've never experienced a failure to ignite - I hear the "I've never had a problem" thing all the time, but depending on what numbers you're actually talking about, it means different things.

I've shot well more than 1000 rds of .22 mag and experienced around 5 failures (some were with Winchester Dynapoints, a few were with CCI Maxi-Mags).

I've shot at least twice that many rounds of Speer Gold Dot and never experienced a failure.

I've shot near 1000 rds of Federal HydraShok and never experienced a failure.

Right around 600 rds of Remington Golden Saber and never a failure of any kind.

About 1500 rds of Winchester Ranger +P+ and aside from light strikes on the primer (problem with a particular gun getting crap in the FP hole), no failures.

The other issues of carrying the NAA (non-ammo related) are still valid too.

Its a cool little gun and I'm not bashing anyone for carrying one - just making sure that folks understand the risks if they do.

Stay alert and careful out there - I'd practice like hell in drawing/shooting if I carried that gun (as I do with any gun).

 

[_CY_]

at no time did I claim to have zero miss-fires from quality .22LR and .22mag.

what I said was the total number of miss-fires was about the same for both center fire and quality .22 rimfire. have to think really hard to remember the last time either one has failed to fire. I'd say 1-2 of each total out of thousands of rounds of both.

like most I've shot thousands of .22LR vs under a thousand rounds of .22 mag.

you cannot equate failure mode of cheap Remington gold bullets to quality .22 rim fire. comfort level is in part based upon personal experience. so based upon my experience... quite comfortable with quality .22mag. your mileage my veri....

by the way... how can you not prefer a NAA .22mag to nothing?

My points all still stand.

I said there are several problems with relying on the NAA .22 mag revolver for self-defense (and then listed them in order). All of those problems are still valid - including the fact that rimfire ammo is still not as reliable as center-fire (no matter what the price is).

I'm curious as to how many rounds of .22 mag you've shot that you've never experienced a failure to ignite - I hear the "I've never had a problem" thing all the time, but depending on what numbers you're actually talking about, it means different things.

I've shot well more than 1000 rds of .22 mag and experienced around 5 failures (some were with Winchester Dynapoints, a few were with CCI Maxi-Mags).

I've shot at least twice that many rounds of Speer Gold Dot and never experienced a failure.

I've shot near 1000 rds of Federal HydraShok and never experienced a failure.

Right around 600 rds of Remington Golden Saber and never a failure of any kind.

About 1500 rds of Winchester Ranger +P+ and aside from light strikes on the primer (problem with a particular gun getting crap in the FP hole), no failures.

The other issues of carrying the NAA (non-ammo related) are still valid too.

Its a cool little gun and I'm not bashing anyone for carrying one - just making sure that folks understand the risks if they do.

Stay alert and careful out there - I'd practice like hell in drawing/shooting if I carried that gun (as I do with any gun).

 

[ez bake]

you cannot equate failure mode of cheap Remington gold bullets to quality .22 rim fire. comfort level is in part based upon personal experience. so based upon my experience... quite comfortable with quality .22mag. your mileage my veri....

by the way... how can you not prefer a NAA .22mag to nothing?

At no time did I mention Remington Golden bullets I specifically said even the higher-dollar .22 ammo.

I assumed you had no Failures to ignite from self-defense center-fire ammo - since I have experienced the same with the above stated thousands of rounds (if you can't use Remington Golden Bullets as an example, then you can't use Blazer Brass or WWB in center-fire).

What self-defense rounds did you experience failures to ignite the primer (again, I'm assuming you mean self-defense rounds when you state high-quality)?

If I ever experienced a failure to ignite the primer (with a good strike) on a self-defense round, I'd be pretty uptight about using that ammo for anything in the future - I'd probably write the manufacturer or send the ammo back for inspection and seriously consider changing ammo manufacturers - a few failures in a thousand rounds is enough to make me nervous when I present my firearm for self-defense.

And not having a firearm is better than having one that might not function or one that fires accidentally when you don't intend (again due to the above issues mentioned in my first post) - its really hard to explain a click when you're pointing a gun at someone who was going to attack you.

What do you say when that happens... "I didn't really mean it"?

 

[flatwins]

Valid points but I don't think anyone here is saying they they would depend on the NAA to be their 100% full time CCW. I will stick to the fact that I bought mine to be the occasional fill-in. I have a few carry weapons, as most of us do. This is just yet another option.

 

[_CY_]

let's say you are right about increased unreliability (say increase of .01%) of quality .22 mag.

we can agree to disagree... MUCH rather have a NAA .22mag with tiny increase of misfire vs nothing at all. again... would not be depending on NAA, unless there was no other option.

if my NAA ever misfired... I'd treat it like any other FTF, which is a part of my practice sessions. fix/clear/unjam/reload or what ever it takes to get functional again.

in NAA's case, cock the hammer and fire again...
now tell me again how much better having nothing is better.

And not having a firearm is better than having one that might not function or one that fires accidentally when you don't intend (again due to the above issues mentioned in my first post) - its really hard to explain a click when you're pointing a gun at someone who was going to attack you.

What do you say when that happens... "I didn't really mean it"?

 

[ez bake]

let's say you are right about increased unreliability (say increase of .01%) of quality .22 mag.

we can agree to disagree... MUCH rather have a NAA .22mag with tiny increase of misfire vs nothing at all. again... would not be depending on NAA, unless there was no other option.

if my NAA ever misfired... I'd treat it like any other FTF, which is a part of my practice sessions. fix/clear/unjam/reload or what ever it takes to get functional again.

in NAA's case, cock the hammer and fire again...
now tell me again how much better having nothing is better.

Well, let me clarify. I didn't intend to be on the side of the argument that having nothing was better than the NAA - I was just answering your question as to why having a gun that has the above mentioned issues isn't better than having nothing at all - I may have gotten off-track there.

Just to recap:

1. I'd argue that the rimfire's reliability is much less than a center-fire of equivalent "self-defense" status, but I'm not willing to do the research to prove that whatever "expensive" .22 mag ammo you're referring to is less than Gold Dots (because its not that important to me since I'll never rely on a .22 mag for self defense - its energy/mass/speed, etc... is below what I consider as an acceptable self-defense round).

And whatever this "expensive/reliable" .22 mag round is, I'd bet its getting into the cost of 9mm by that point, so the cost no longer justifies shooting it.

2. the gun is tiny - the model with the folding grip is a step up, but aside from that, you cannot possibly hold the gun with a proper grip to ensure that you have control over it.

3. its a single-action revolver. Having to cock and pull a trigger isn't a good thing when considering the time that normal draw (especially from a pocket) takes - add pressure to that, and it makes for a dangerous situation of either AD/ND or not cocking/firing properly.

4. the open trigger guard scares the crap out of me. No way I'd carry that thing in my pocket without a very good holster - and even then, I'd be leery about drawing/presenting without fear of an AD/ND.

5. in order to carry the gun in "safe" mode, you cock the hammer and then while holding the hammer, you pull the trigger and let it down into one of the safety slots - that is another dangerous thing to do around people, etc...

I'd wager to guess that an NAA can not be concealed anymore so than a J-frame in .38 +P with 99% of clothes people wear.

Also keep in mind that if you're pulling this gun to use against someone in a self-defense situation (no matter if you've got 10 other guns on you), you're depending solely on its reliability - even if its a backup, even if its just a light-carry gun in certain situations - if its what you draw/present, its all you're relying on until you've found another solution or the fight is over.

 

[OKCShooter]

I have a feeling that you've never shot one of these NAA's?

Well, let me clarify. I didn't intend to be on the side of the argument that having nothing was better than the NAA - I was just answering your question as to why having a gun that has the above mentioned issues isn't better than having nothing at all - I may have gotten off-track there.

Just to recap:

1. I'd argue that the rimfire's reliability is much less than a center-fire of equivalent "self-defense" status, but I'm not willing to do the research to prove that whatever "expensive" .22 mag ammo you're referring to is less than Gold Dots (because its not that important to me since I'll never rely on a .22 mag for self defense - its energy/mass/speed, etc... is below what I consider as an acceptable self-defense round).

And whatever this "expensive/reliable" .22 mag round is, I'd bet its getting into the cost of 9mm by that point, so the cost no longer justifies shooting it.

2. the gun is tiny - the model with the folding grip is a step up, but aside from that, you cannot possibly hold the gun with a proper grip to ensure that you have control over it.

3. its a single-action revolver. Having to cock and pull a trigger isn't a good thing when considering the time that normal draw (especially from a pocket) takes - add pressure to that, and it makes for a dangerous situation of either AD/ND or not cocking/firing properly.

4. the open trigger guard scares the crap out of me. No way I'd carry that thing in my pocket without a very good holster - and even then, I'd be leery about drawing/presenting without fear of an AD/ND.

5. in order to carry the gun in "safe" mode, you cock the hammer and then while holding the hammer, you pull the trigger and let it down into one of the safety slots - that is another dangerous thing to do around people, etc...

I'd wager to guess that an NAA can not be concealed anymore so than a J-frame in .38 +P with 99% of clothes people wear.

Also keep in mind that if you're pulling this gun to use against someone in a self-defense situation (no matter if you've got 10 other guns on you), you're depending solely on its reliability - even if its a backup, even if its just a light-carry gun in certain situations - if its what you draw/present, its all you're relying on until you've found another solution or the fight is over.