Info for you to use when people claim the US was founded as a christian nation

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yukonjack

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The violent past of Christianity is a joke to todays version of Christianity. Christianity has pacified this county. It's been pacified so deeply that athiests were affected by it and don't even know it. I'll be happy when Christianity finally fails in this country.

The desires of foolish men. Not only will Christianity fail in this country so will the whole country. The Muslim in the White House is fixing to import tens of thousands of Syrian Muslims. None of whom want the US to remain a Christian country. So your wish will come true. And you'll be on your knees or your head will roll. Good luck!!!!
 

saltydog

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That's interesting. We didn't start as a nation under god.... if anything "god" has made it significantly worse.

God didn't do it, America did it in the 60's. America kicked God out of the public school system and that left only the devil to play with the kids. Hell, I don't even go to church and can see that one....:smash:

Believers see this. Non believers will never see it. Both sides know one thing for sure, something is getting ready to happen in this country. They can feel it.
 

Eagle Eye

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God didn't do it, America did it in the 60's. America kicked God out of the public school system and that left only the devil to play with the kids. Hell, I don't even go to church and can see that one....:smash:

Believers see this. Non believers will never see it. Both sides know one thing for sure, something is getting ready to happen in this country. They can feel it.

:lookaroun
 

71buickfreak

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Maybe I should try to win a county clerk seat, then convert to Islam and refuse to sign or let anyone else sign any of you filthy infidel's marriage licenses. Would that emphasize the point to them?
according to the poor persecuted radical Christians, the rest of the country would allow it.
 

Street Rat

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Actually, you are the one with flawed vision. It was at the hands of terrorists that the towers fell in the name of God, not because we have lost our faith. I am Christian, I believe in god, but that absolutely zero to do with how the country is run. There are a lot of other folks out there with differing opinions on the matter. Religion is between you and your god nobody else. Countless wars and atrocities have been perpetrated in the name of God for very ungodly purposes. All governments founded in religion eventually turn to darkness, that is one of the things that the founders were trying to get away from. I don't give two craps about your relationship with god, that is between you and him, just like my relationship is between me and my god. See how that works? You would seem to push your views on everybody else because you think they are righteous. How is that acceptable?

Of course I'm the one with a flawed vision because mine doesn't line up with yours.

I wonder if there were any Israelites who were saying the same thing as you just said right before they went into captivity 70 years for not following God's laws. America was founded as a Christian nation. In Feb, 29, 1892, the Supreme Court stated, America is a Christian Nation. George Washington after his first inaugural address to the senate as the first president of the United States, directly after, they marched to the small church to dedicate this nation to God. Interestingly, that church still stands today, that church on that day sat on the same property where the Twin Towers fell. America (Christian's included) have turned their back on God just like the Israelites did. Our President, the Supreme Court speaks for us all. America is living on borrowed time. Something is about to break, possibly this month being the end of the Shemitah year and if you have read The Harbinger or the Mystery of the Shemitah you would know what I talking about. On a certain level, I hope this is wrong, but on another level, I hope it's right because whatever it might be, we deserve what's coming to us.

Look around those who say they can't wait until the Christians are gone, you do not know what you are asking for.

BTW, believing in God does not make you a Christian.

Feel free to bring this back up in October to throw it in my face, but from things I have been reading and seeing take place, I never felt more strongly about something like this. And no, I didn't think twice about Y2K, or 2012 and the Mayan calendar, and I didn't follow Harold Camping.
 

TenBears

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The desires of foolish men. Not only will Christianity fail in this country so will the whole country. The Muslim in the White House is fixing to import tens of thousands of Syrian Muslims. None of whom want the US to remain a Christian country. So your wish will come true. And you'll be on your knees or your head will roll. Good luck!!!!

That is a point that is lost on several different groups.
 

cowadle

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Of course I'm the one with a flawed vision because mine doesn't line up with yours.

I wonder if there were any Israelites who were saying the same thing as you just said right before they went into captivity 70 years for not following God's laws. America was founded as a Christian nation. In Feb, 29, 1892, the Supreme Court stated, America is a Christian Nation. George Washington after his first inaugural address to the senate as the first president of the United States, directly after, they marched to the small church to dedicate this nation to God. Interestingly, that church still stands today, that church on that day sat on the same property where the Twin Towers fell. America (Christian's included) have turned their back on God just like the Israelites did. Our President, the Supreme Court speaks for us all. America is living on borrowed time. Something is about to break, possibly this month being the end of the Shemitah year and if you have read The Harbinger or the Mystery of the Shemitah you would know what I talking about. On a certain level, I hope this is wrong, but on another level, I hope it's right because whatever it might be, we deserve what's coming to us.

Look around those who say they can't wait until the Christians are gone, you do not know what you are asking for.

BTW, believing in God does not make you a Christian.

Feel free to bring this back up in October to throw it in my face, but from things I have been reading and seeing take place, I never felt more strongly about something like this. And no, I didn't think twice about Y2K, or 2012 and the Mayan calendar, and I didn't follow Harold Camping.


Amen what we need in this country is a real old fashioned revival! I think what we are seeing is the fruit of non christian leadership and what i find interesting is how fast things went to hell. and for how long we were a prospering nation before the christian belief was dropped. it is even more interesting how fast the non believing christian haters here are to blame God for the fruit of their own actions.
 

Hobbes

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Here is some documentation that should help you in your quest to enlighten those that believe the US was founded as a Christian nation.

http://www.earlyamerica.com/early-america-review/volume-2/secular-government/



A few Christian fundamentalists attempt to convince us to return to the Christianity of early America, yet according to the historian, Robert T. Handy, “No more than 10 percent– probably less– of Americans in 1800 were members of congregations.”

The Founding Fathers, also, rarely practiced Christian orthodoxy. Although they supported the free exercise of any religion, they understood the dangers of religion. Most of them believed in deism and attended Freemasonry lodges. According to John J. Robinson, “Freemasonry had been a powerful force for religious freedom.” Freemasons took seriously the principle that men should worship according to their own conscience. Masonry welcomed anyone from any religion or non-religion, as long as they believed in a Supreme Being. Washington, Franklin, Hancock, Hamilton, Lafayette, and many others accepted Freemasonry.

The Constitution reflects our founders views of a secular government, protecting the freedom of any belief or unbelief. The historian, Robert Middlekauff, observed, “the idea that the Constitution expressed a moral view seems absurd. There were no genuine evangelicals in the Convention, and there were no heated declarations of Christian piety.”

George Washington

Much of the myth of Washington’s alleged Christianity came from Mason Weems influential book, “Life of Washington.” The story of the cherry tree comes from this book and it has no historical basis. Weems, a Christian minister portrayed Washington as a devout Christian, yet Washington’s own diaries show that he rarely attended Church.

Washington revealed almost nothing to indicate his spiritual frame of mind, hardly a mark of a devout Christian. In his thousands of letters, the name of Jesus Christ never appears. He rarely spoke about his religion, but his Freemasonry experience points to a belief in deism. Washington’s initiation occurred at the Fredericksburg Lodge on 4 November 1752, later becoming a Master mason in 1799, and remained a freemason until he died.

To the United Baptist Churches in Virginia in May, 1789, Washington said that every man “ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.”

After Washington’s death, Dr. Abercrombie, a friend of his, replied to a Dr. Wilson, who had interrogated him about Washington’s religion replied, “Sir, Washington was a Deist.”

Thomas Jefferson

Even most Christians do not consider Jefferson a Christian. In many of his letters, he denounced the superstitions of Christianity. He did not believe in spiritual souls, angels or godly miracles. Although Jefferson did admire the morality of Jesus, Jefferson did not think him divine, nor did he believe in the Trinity or the miracles of Jesus. In a letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787, he wrote, “Question with boldness even the existence of a god.”

Jefferson believed in materialism, reason, and science. He never admitted to any religion but his own. In a letter to Ezra Stiles Ely, 25 June 1819, he wrote, “You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.”


John Adams
John Adams



John Adams

Adams, a Unitarian, flatly denied the doctrine of eternal damnation. In a letter to Thomas Jefferson, he wrote:

“I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!”

In his letter to Samuel Miller, 8 July 1820, Adams admitted his unbelief of Protestant Calvinism: “I must acknowledge that I cannot class myself under that denomination.”

In his, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” [1787-1788], John Adams wrote:

“The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.

“. . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”

James Madison

Called the father of the Constitution, Madison had no conventional sense of Christianity. In 1785, Madison wrote in his Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments:

“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.”

“What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.”

Benjamin Franklin

Although Franklin received religious training, his nature forced him to rebel against the irrational tenets of his parents Christianity. His Autobiography revels his skepticism, “My parents had given me betimes religions impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself.

“. . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a through Deist.”

In an essay on “Toleration,” Franklin wrote:

“If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. These found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here [England] and in New England.”

Dr. Priestley, an intimate friend of Franklin, wrote of him:

“It is much to be lamented that a man of Franklin’s general good character and great influence should have been an unbeliever in Christianity, and also have done as much as he did to make others unbelievers” (Priestley’s Autobiography)

Thomas Paine

This freethinker and author of several books, influenced more early Americans than any other writer. Although he held Deist beliefs, he wrote in his famous The Age of Reason:

“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my church. “

“Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. “

Thanks, good to know.:thumb:
 

nofearfactor

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The Treaty of Tripoli.

Article 11.

Article 11 has been a point of contention in popular culture disputes on the doctrine of separation of church and state as it applies to the founding principles of the United States. Some religious spokesmen claim that-despite unanimous ratification by the U.S. Senate in English-the text which appears as Article 11 in the English translation does not appear in the Arabic text of the treaty. Some historians, secular and religious, have argued that the phrase specifically refers to the government and not the culture, that it only speaks of the founding and not what America became or might become, and that many Founding Fathers and newspapers described America as a Christian nation during the early Republic.


Article 11 reads:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

According to Frank Lambert, Professor of History at Purdue University, the assurances in Article 11 were "intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers." Lambert writes,

"By their actions, the Founding Fathers made clear that their primary concern was religious freedom, not the advancement of a state religion. Individuals, not the government, would define religious faith and practice in the United States. Thus the Founders ensured that in no official sense would America be a Christian Republic. Ten years after the Constitutional Convention ended its work, the country assured the world that the United States was a secular state, and that its negotiations would adhere to the rule of law, not the dictates of the Christian faith. The assurances were contained in the Treaty of Tripoli of 1797 and were intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers.

The treaty was printed in the Philadelphia Gazette and two New York papers, with only scant public dissent, most notably from William Cobbett.
 
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