Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional, federal judge rules

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

This is pretty amazing. Common law and statutory FRAUD has been actionable both civilly and criminally for hundreds of years. It too is based on speech (specifically, lying).

Fraud is (a) a misrepresentation made (b) knowing it its false, (c) with intent to deceive, (d) for pecuniary gain. That sounds precisely like what this guy was doing - he was using a falsehood to raise money, and presumably took some of the $$ for himself (??). If he did not financially gain, then maybe that's why they charged him under this law, instead of state law fraud, because the elements could not be met.

People are prosecuted for fraud all the time. In fact, crimes such as bogus check, uttering a forged instrument, etc., are all based on what is in essense, telling a (written) lie - known false, with intent to deceive, for pecuniary gain -- and free speech has never protected them.

I'm all for a strong 1st amendment, but I don't see how this judge distinguished these other crimes that have never been able to hide behind the 1st.

Also, it is absurd for this judge to suggest soldiers, sailors, and airpersons are not motivated to be good at their jobs on the battlefield at least in part by the desire to earn recognition for their skills and bravery - of course they are! And how does he even think he knows - did he poll them?

Man this defendant needs an ass-whuppin, in any event.

 

[LightningCrash]

Are you saying you don't see the distinction, Dr Winslow?

Fraud where you have
(a) a misrepresentation made (b) knowing it its false, (c) with intent to deceive, (d) for pecuniary gain

Violation of the stolen valor act where you only have
(a) a misrepresentation made

Fraud can't hide behind 1A because property rights affect the situation.

 

[pinkhamr]

Was the fraud reaping any financial profit from his actions?

 

[henschman]

Fraud can't hide behind 1A because property rights affect the situation.

Exactly!

Telling a lie to get money from somebody violates their property rights.

Telling a lie to sound like a badass violates nobody's rights, and therefore it would be an illegitimate exercise of power for the the government to prohibit it, since the only legitimate role of a government is to secure the liberty of its citizens.

Plus, the sordid reputation that goes along with being known as a liar, especially about military service, is deterrent enough.

 

[Risky_Rooster]

As a veteran (no really I swear ) I don't think there needs to be an additional law that prohibits fraud. As others have mentioned there are laws on the books that are relevant to these types of criminal behavior. It seems like "PX heroes" always get busted eventually.

Besides, if your unit was anything like mine, they probably handed you an award with documentation, and then never put it on your DD214, or anywhere else in your file. I'd hate to have someone try and prosecute me for the army's shoddy paperwork.

 

[Police9901]

Besides, if your unit was anything like mine, they probably handed you an award with documentation, and then never put it on your DD214, or anywhere else in your file. I'd hate to have someone try and prosecute me for the army's shoddy paperwork.

You Sir, are correct. Not everything goes in the 214. Sometimes it's the Army's paperwork, sometimes it's the nature of the operation the award was given for.
Still, if somebody claims to have served on some unit, received some sort of medal or award, there will be still people out there who are able of vetting him, with or without the DD214.

 

[SMS]

No individual decoration is issued without an accompanying order signed by the authorized approver (even classified missions). If an order wasn't generated, then you officially didn't recieve the award, even if somebody presented it to you in a ceremony.

I was always taught, and taught others, that the individual was responsible for the content of their own official record...I scrubbed my record every year and made sure copies of all my relevent paperwork were physically present in my file...to include the orders and citations for all my awards and decorations. If you rely on some E-3 admin troop to keep your life history in order, you are screwing yourself.

Even if it doesn't make it into a DD214 the order is still a form of proof...albeit, an easily faked one. But DD214s are pretty easy to fake too for that matter.

If it aint on your 214 or you don't have a copy of the citation and accompanying order then don't wear it or run your suck about earning it is my rule (I wouldn't run my suck about it either way for that matter) .

 

[Risky_Rooster]

No individual decoration is issued without an accompanying order signed by the authorized approver (even classified missions). If an order wasn't generated, then you officially didn't recieve the award, even if somebody presented it to you in a ceremony.

I was always taught, and taught others, that the individual was responsible for the content of their own official record...I scrubbed my record every year and made sure copies of all my relevent paperwork were physically present in my file...to include the orders and citations for all my awards and decorations. If you rely on some E-3 admin troop to keep your life history in order, you are screwing yourself.

Even if it doesn't make it into a DD214 the order is still a form of proof...albeit, an easily faked one. But DD214s are pretty easy to fake too for that matter.

If it aint on your 214 or you don't have a copy of the citation and accompanying order then don't wear it or run your suck about earning it is my rule (I wouldn't run my suck about it either way for that matter) .

True, I suppose the orders are probably stuffed right next to the awards, in the bottom of a duffel bag in the attic.

And I agree about not running your yap, I was thinking more like some poor SOB running for office getting called out by a reporter, because his public record didn't reflect what his duffel bag full of orders did. As you said, he could prove it through documentation or by tracking down an old battle bud to confirm, but the damage would already be done.

 

[Crosstimbers Okie]

Shucks! I guess this means that this POS may be getting out of prison a few months early.

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies499.htm

http://muskogeephoenix.com/local/x2128998273/Muskogee-police-arrest-one-of-their-own

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?s=8528577

 

[okie98]

If they tried to prosecute all the "Closet Commandos", our Courts would be even more jammed than they are presently. Those guys always get tripped up, eventually. They can't keep places, units and time frames straight.