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The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

Discussion in 'Rifle & Shotgun Discussion' started by Kimber.45, Aug 20, 2011.

  1. Kimber.45

    Kimber.45 Sharpshooter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
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    Location:
    Tulsa
    I'm looking to invest in a basic civilian model M4 military rifle with none of the high speed gadgets already included, but that will allow for them to be put on at a later date. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
     
  2. rebelracer79

    rebelracer79 Sharpshooter Member

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    Chouteau
    Basically any flat-top carbine, nearly every manufacture makes one.
     
  3. alank2

    alank2 Sharpshooter Member

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    Hi,

    I bought/put together my first AR in the last couple of months and you can either buy a completed rifle or build it yourself if you like building things. I went the "semi build" route and it all started with a CMMG lower I picked up at Sports World for $99. I bought a completed BCM upper so I wouldn't have to do any of the upper building or buy tools to do it. I got some great prices at stuff from palmettostatearmory.com too.

    Good luck,

    Alan
     
  4. Getoffmylawn

    Getoffmylawn Sharpshooter Member

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    Aug 15, 2009
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    Oklahoma City
    Any 16" government profile barreled flattop AR with carbine length quadrails will get you what you're looking for.
     
  5. been

    been Sharpshooter Member

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    Ive heard that the shorter barrels on the M4's underpower the 5.56 round.is this true?
     
  6. ez bake

    ez bake Sharpshooter Member

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    The short answer is "no". You loose velocity with each inch you shorten, but I'm not sure how short you're talking about or what "under power the round" means - lots of SBRs on this board and around the world function just fine (and the rounds are still accurate).
     
  7. been

    been Sharpshooter Member

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    just what i heard.wasn't sure if it was true or not because i don't have much experience with AR's.
     
  8. NikatKimber

    NikatKimber Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator Member

    Joined:
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    If you're wanting the true M4 style, with the M4 contour barrel, this from DelTon is about the cheapest you can get.

    DelTon M4 Rifle Kit $485 + Lower receiver. This includes everything you need except the receiver. If I remember correctly, there is someone in the classifieds selling receivers for $81 OTD. So for less than $600 you could be have a complete rifle.

    If the exact look of the M4 is not required, I recommend getting a midlength gas system like this one:
    DelTon Mid Rifle Kit $465 + Lower receiver. The Midlength gas system is smoother and less harsh on the gun.

    If you're not as concerned with price, this is even more accurate to the M4 specs (14.5" barrel), and higher quality.
    BCM 14.5" M4 Upper $449 + BCG + CH + Complete Lower. BCG (bolt carrier group) + CH (charging handle) can be had for ~$150, and figure $200 for a basic M4 type complete lower if you build it yourself.

    As far as the high speed add ons later, as long as you build with a A3 upper (flat top upper vs A2 w/ built in carry handle and sight), everything else can be changed. The AR-15 system is beautiful that way, it is completely modular. You can set up two uppers for one lower, swap stocks on a lower, barrels, hand guards, everything.

    PS**** Anything with less than 16" barrel is an NFA item if built as a rifle. Just FYI. The upper I linked to with the 14.5" barrel has a permanently attached flash hider that therefore counts as barrel length making it 16.1".
     
  9. aestus

    aestus Sharpshooter Member

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    The original 55gr 5.56 round was designed around the 20" barrel. The velocities the round was able to achieve caused the round to violently tumble and fragment consistently. Using a shorter 14.5" barrel will result in having less velocity and cause the round to not tumble and violently fragment as much as it would through a 20" barrel. Note that I said "as much." They still will tumble and fragment and are still deadly, but just not as much as it would through a 20" barrel. The same is true for the XM855 62gr penetrator rounds. Those are notorious for being icepicks with little to no tumbling at all, especially through shorter barrels.

    This can be compensated by using heavier 75-77 gr. rounds which will fragment and tumble at very slow velocities. The downside is that these actually will penetrate less than the old 55gr rounds. Some of the US troops deployed in the middle east are using MK262 5.56 rounds that are 77gr open tipped match grade rounds. There is also a new 62gr penetrator round that the military is using called the XM855A1, which is dubbed the "green" round since it is lead free and uses a copper core and a stacked steel tip. Supposedly these have better penetration than most .308 rounds and they tumble consistently, eliminating the icepick type wound usually associated with the old XM855 rounds.

    I haven't shot the new XM855A1 (don't think it's available for civvies yet and can't find any surplus) but I can attest to the 77gr rounds. Awesome rounds, just a bit expensive to shoot. I plan on reloading my own 77gr rounds in the future.

    Also, if you want to shoot heavier rounds, you'll need a 1:8 or 1:7 twist. If you want a general AR that shoots both cheap 55gr rounds and the heavier stuff, I'd recommend a 1:8. If you're only concerned with plinking and shooting targets and small varmints, then a 1:9 twist is fine.
     
  10. csiedmond1

    csiedmond1 Sharpshooter Member

    Joined:
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    Miami
    Model1sales.com has some good prices and good upper kits (upper and lower parts kit) then all you need is a stripped lower!!!
    http://www.model1sales.com
     

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