Lightest weight, you say?
The DPMS LR 308 L, LR 338 L, and LR 260 L - these are only 7.99 lbs before adding crap to them (like I did - my LR 260 L is now 10.5 lbs with scope, rings, sling, quad rail, foregrip & light - still pretty light though all things considered).
The DPMS LR 308 L, LR 338 L, and LR 260 L - these are only 7.99 lbs before adding crap to them (like I did - my LR 260 L is now 10.5 lbs with scope, rings, sling, quad rail, foregrip & light - still pretty light though all things considered).
I still dont understand your choice on AR .308 because of same basic platform as AR.
DIVERSIFY!
Besides, I have yet to see any AR in .308 that looks as sexy as a Mk14.
DIVERSIFY!
Besides, I have yet to see any AR in .308 that looks as sexy as a Mk14.
While the M14 EBR is a sexy beast, an AR in 7.62 has the same operation as one in 5.56, nothing new to learn.
The M14 type is cool.
So is my DPMS AR10 type - only thing better than a .308 big AR is a .260 rem big AR:
http://s898.photobucket.com/albums/ac188/drtadhusseinwinslow/DPMS LR 260 L/
It weighs right about 10.5 lbs with everything you see there, and right about 11.5 lbs with all that plus a 5 round magazine loaded with 4 rounds of ammo.
It is reliable, accurate, uses standard .308 DPMS mags, and outperforms ALL of these in external ballistic performance:
-.308 win
-6.8 Rem SPC
-6.5 Grendel
-.243 WSSM
-.25 WSSM
-etc., etc.
all the while still being lighter than MOST "full sized MBRs" if you will (not to mention a lot of tricked out HB AR15 types), and having less recoil than most .308s.
Now if we could just get an RFB in a 18-20" .260, then we'd be cookin with butane, boys!
So is my DPMS AR10 type - only thing better than a .308 big AR is a .260 rem big AR:
http://s898.photobucket.com/albums/ac188/drtadhusseinwinslow/DPMS LR 260 L/
It weighs right about 10.5 lbs with everything you see there, and right about 11.5 lbs with all that plus a 5 round magazine loaded with 4 rounds of ammo.
It is reliable, accurate, uses standard .308 DPMS mags, and outperforms ALL of these in external ballistic performance:
-.308 win
-6.8 Rem SPC
-6.5 Grendel
-.243 WSSM
-.25 WSSM
-etc., etc.
all the while still being lighter than MOST "full sized MBRs" if you will (not to mention a lot of tricked out HB AR15 types), and having less recoil than most .308s.
Now if we could just get an RFB in a 18-20" .260, then we'd be cookin with butane, boys!
I have had a DPMS LR-308C (the 20" barreled one) as well as a Springfield M1A Standard. I've never had a FAL, but I know a bit about them.
I thought the DPMS was way to heavy for a rifle to take into the field. It was over 11 pounds empty, and if you add a scope/mount and a railed forearm like I did, you're talkin a pretty heavy beast. I think most of the DPMS barrels are unnecessarily heavy. Granted, it was accurate, like accurate enough for me to shoot 1 MOA from prone unsupported, but its no more accurate than my Standard M1A, which has a much lighter barrel and weighs a full 2 pounds less.
Either the M1A or the FAL would be more reliable than any AR platform. Both use a gas piston design. The M1A has the advantage of positive bolt engagement with the bolt handle. This lets you directly push forward or pull back the bolt with the bolt handle, for clearing malfunctions. You can directly pull back the bolt on a FAL, but you can't positively push it forward. With the AR, you can't do either (you just have the worthless forward assist).
Also, you have to consider the availability of parts... I like to keep enough spare parts around to keep my 2A purpose rifles running through thick and thin. The FAL probably has the cheapest available parts, as you can still find parts kits for them. Its pretty cheap to accumulate enough spare GI parts to keep an M14 running, too. But the 7.62 ARs are another story. Sure, the trigger parts are interchangeable with poodle shooter parts, but try getting an extra barrel or bolt parts! You don't have the option of buying parts kits or GI surplus parts, like with the other rifles... you have to buy directly from the manufacturer, and they're usually backed up on orders if they even sell those items separately at all. Mag price and availability is an issue, too.
The M1A has the best iron sights of any battle rifle in the world, bar none. The FAL is OK... at least it has an aperture sight that is somewhat adjustable. The sight radius isn't as good as the M1A, and they're not as easily adjustable. With the AR, you can put whatever sights you want on it being that its a flat-top, but it still has a lot shorter sight radius than the M1A.
I don't know what you intend to do with the rifle... if you only want to use it for competition or target shooting or plinking or hunting, reliability in the field and cheap replacement parts aren't that much of an issue. it comes with a lifetime warranty, after all. But if you're like me and intend it to be a battle rifle that could survive a SHTF scenario with you and keep on running in the field, away from civilization, you have some different considerations.
If you do get a 7.62 AR, I would go with the Rock River Arms LAR-8 Standard. They don't have the big fat barrels like DPMS -- they have a more standard-weight barrel, and the rifle weighs the exact same as an M14 (9.3 lbs). It takes FAL mags, which takes care of your mag availability concerns, and it comes standard with RRA's nice 2-stage trigger (the trigger on my DPMS, like most factory AR triggers, left something to be desired). They are fully flat-top, with the railed gas block and all. I would get the 20" barreled version... whoever said you don't gain a lot of velocity after 16" is dead wrong if you were talking about 7.62x51 (that is true for the .223). On a 7.62, you don't lose much velocity at 18", but 16 makes a big difference in velocity, max effective range, and muzzle blast/flash. Plus its not like you're going to do room entry with a friggin .308, so what's the point of the short barrel?
I think all the body kits for the M14, like the sage, Vltor, and Troy, are dumb. they are all really heavy. It just turns it into a 15 lb. flat top AR. just buy a .308 AR if you want one that bad, and save yourself some weight. I don't like pistol grips anyway.
FWIW, that's my .02 worthless, inflated federal reserve notes.
I thought the DPMS was way to heavy for a rifle to take into the field. It was over 11 pounds empty, and if you add a scope/mount and a railed forearm like I did, you're talkin a pretty heavy beast. I think most of the DPMS barrels are unnecessarily heavy. Granted, it was accurate, like accurate enough for me to shoot 1 MOA from prone unsupported, but its no more accurate than my Standard M1A, which has a much lighter barrel and weighs a full 2 pounds less.
Either the M1A or the FAL would be more reliable than any AR platform. Both use a gas piston design. The M1A has the advantage of positive bolt engagement with the bolt handle. This lets you directly push forward or pull back the bolt with the bolt handle, for clearing malfunctions. You can directly pull back the bolt on a FAL, but you can't positively push it forward. With the AR, you can't do either (you just have the worthless forward assist).
Also, you have to consider the availability of parts... I like to keep enough spare parts around to keep my 2A purpose rifles running through thick and thin. The FAL probably has the cheapest available parts, as you can still find parts kits for them. Its pretty cheap to accumulate enough spare GI parts to keep an M14 running, too. But the 7.62 ARs are another story. Sure, the trigger parts are interchangeable with poodle shooter parts, but try getting an extra barrel or bolt parts! You don't have the option of buying parts kits or GI surplus parts, like with the other rifles... you have to buy directly from the manufacturer, and they're usually backed up on orders if they even sell those items separately at all. Mag price and availability is an issue, too.
The M1A has the best iron sights of any battle rifle in the world, bar none. The FAL is OK... at least it has an aperture sight that is somewhat adjustable. The sight radius isn't as good as the M1A, and they're not as easily adjustable. With the AR, you can put whatever sights you want on it being that its a flat-top, but it still has a lot shorter sight radius than the M1A.
I don't know what you intend to do with the rifle... if you only want to use it for competition or target shooting or plinking or hunting, reliability in the field and cheap replacement parts aren't that much of an issue. it comes with a lifetime warranty, after all. But if you're like me and intend it to be a battle rifle that could survive a SHTF scenario with you and keep on running in the field, away from civilization, you have some different considerations.
If you do get a 7.62 AR, I would go with the Rock River Arms LAR-8 Standard. They don't have the big fat barrels like DPMS -- they have a more standard-weight barrel, and the rifle weighs the exact same as an M14 (9.3 lbs). It takes FAL mags, which takes care of your mag availability concerns, and it comes standard with RRA's nice 2-stage trigger (the trigger on my DPMS, like most factory AR triggers, left something to be desired). They are fully flat-top, with the railed gas block and all. I would get the 20" barreled version... whoever said you don't gain a lot of velocity after 16" is dead wrong if you were talking about 7.62x51 (that is true for the .223). On a 7.62, you don't lose much velocity at 18", but 16 makes a big difference in velocity, max effective range, and muzzle blast/flash. Plus its not like you're going to do room entry with a friggin .308, so what's the point of the short barrel?
I think all the body kits for the M14, like the sage, Vltor, and Troy, are dumb. they are all really heavy. It just turns it into a 15 lb. flat top AR. just buy a .308 AR if you want one that bad, and save yourself some weight. I don't like pistol grips anyway.
FWIW, that's my .02 worthless, inflated federal reserve notes.
Im in the boat as well. I have an AK and AR. Im now looking myself for a .308 cal rifle.
I did do a thread on a few that I found and the shop that Im dealing with has also mentioned an AR in .308.
I wonder if building one is any cheaper or just buy a gun ready to go? Then if building who has the kits?
Good post a lot of good info here.
I did do a thread on a few that I found and the shop that Im dealing with has also mentioned an AR in .308.
I wonder if building one is any cheaper or just buy a gun ready to go? Then if building who has the kits?
Good post a lot of good info here.
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