.40 S&W vs .357 Sig

[inactive]

I like the 90 grainers from Cor Bon.They are smoking fast!!

But I recon that the lower sectional density and mass mean that the velocity peters out and penetration is less than a larger bullet with an equal loading.


http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/LowPenetration.htm

Corbon 90-gr JHP +P: This ammunition usually averages around 1500 ft/sec from the Hi Power and provides decent accuracy at 15 to 20 yards. Lightweight bullets for caliber do lose velocity quicker over distance than do heavier ones, but that should not be expected to make them any "safer" in the event of a miss. In 10% ballistic gelatin, penetration is normally in the 5 to 6" range. This round expands reliably and consistently fragments.

EDIT: And to keep this related to the original post, I would stick to the .40, due to the fact you can load a larger and higher grain projectile in it. The 180 gr 40 has a higher sectional density than a 125 gr 9mm projectile (.161 versus .141). Even with the added velocity, the .40 usually rates better for penetration in ballistic gelatin. Not to mention any bone, etc (see LDP's post quoting the medical examiner). That, and the cost is far more attractive.

 

[Nraman]

I like the 90 grainers from Cor Bon.They are smoking fast!!

Cor Bon loads them hot. Ever had the chance to compare the 90gr to heavier hot loads for recoil?

 

[redmax51]

Cor Bon loads them hot. Ever had the chance to compare the 90gr to heavier hot loads for recoil?

I'm not recoil sensitive so neither bothers me.I like the lighter faster bullets out of short barrels.
The only heavy recoiling weapons that bother me are 2 I own....S&W 340PD with full house 357 mag loads and S&W 296 44 special with 180 gr CorBons.Both are Scandium guns and are actually painful to shoot.

Back on topic,I could always tell the difference between 200 gr +P(Speer Gold Dot) 45 ACP and 230 gr. +P(Remington green/yellow box) out of my S&W 1911PD.Heavier bullet definitely had more felt recoil.

 

[JD8]

I think that there with so many variables such as gun weight, size, grip comfort and user perceived recoil, duration, sharpness and overall force of recoil, etc.
What ever works for the individual. I find hot 115 gr bullets in a G26 more comfy than hot 147gr.

Can't argue physics though.
Hence I said all things being equal and things usually aren't. However, the ONLY way a heavier bullet will have more recoil is if the velocity of the lighter bullet slows down to a point to where the velocity allows the energy to be the same, since the lighter bullets are generally moving at a much great velocity.

 

[NikatKimber]

Felt recoil != Actual recoil energy

Many things affect the way you feel the recoil. The whole "slap" vs "shove" idea has some merit to it. So just because hot 115gr loads feel better than hot 147gr loads, does NOT mean that they have less muzzle energy. And muzzle energy = recoil energy.

Using the data from the Speer website (just as an example):

As you can see, for a given caliber, as bullet weight goes up and velocity goes down, the muzzle energy also goes down. This is why felt recoil typically goes down given shooting the ammo through the same gun, as your hand is absorbing lesser amounts of energy. However, inertia goes UP, as it is not as dependent on velocity. Inertia is what will break bones, in other words, penetration. Take for instance the 5lb Cannonball I included for kicks. To achieve the same muzzle energy as the 90gr 9mm, the cannonball only has to go 76 ft/s (about 52mph); however, at that speed, the inertia of the cannonball is almost 20 times greater. Meaning it will knock your head right off, and keep on going.

 

[inactive]

Felt recoil != Actual recoil energy

Many things affect the way you feel the recoil. The whole "slap" vs "shove" idea has some merit to it. So just because hot 115gr loads feel better than hot 147gr loads, does NOT mean that they have less muzzle energy. And muzzle energy = recoil energy.

Using the data from the Speer website (just as an example):

As you can see, for a given caliber, as bullet weight goes up and velocity goes down, the muzzle energy also goes down. This is why felt recoil typically goes down given shooting the ammo through the same gun, as your hand is absorbing lesser amounts of energy. However, inertia goes UP, as it is not as dependent on velocity. Inertia is what will break bones, in other words, penetration. Take for instance the 5lb Cannonball I included for kicks. To achieve the same muzzle energy as the 90gr 9mm, the cannonball only has to go 76 ft/s (about 52mph); however, at that speed, the inertia of the cannonball is almost 20 times greater. Meaning it will knock your head right off, and keep on going.

Finally, someone who realizes the truth in what I have been saying here! I'm not an ME, like NikatKimber is, but I was an engineering student for some time and remember my physics classes. I can't articulate the science that well; nice use of the Cannonball example!

The slap vs shove (most commonly discussed when comparing .45 to .40) is also affected by the pressure... just one more variable to throw in the the recoil equation.

 

[NikatKimber]

Finally, someone who realizes the truth in what I have been saying here! I'm not an ME, like NikatKimber is, but I was an engineering student for some time and remember my physics classes. I can't articulate the science that well; nice use of the Cannonball example!

The slap vs shove (most commonly discussed when comparing .45 to .40) is also affected by the pressure... just one more variable to throw in the the recoil equation.

Something else to consider, is that the test velocities I used are all for a 4 inch barrel.

My personal opinion is the same as GMT and Olyeller, lighter bullets (given max loads) generally recoil more.

 

[Nraman]

Felt recoil != Actual recoil energy

I disagree with that. Felt recoil is how the recoil feels.
Factors such as weight of gun, width of grip, grip position to barrel center line etc. all combine to alter the perception and relative comfort of a firing gun.

 

[NikatKimber]

Exactly...

!= means "not equal to"