911 operator causes death

[RidgeHunter]

Uhhh, since when is a 911 dispatcher an authority figure?

I know you are asserting this. But that most people would assume they are scares me. No disrespect to any dispatchers out there, I know many are well trained and perform a very noble duty. But it ain't exactly having a cop or fireman or paramedic on the horn...

Anyone can be an authority figure. Since when is a frumpy office worker on a staircase an authority figure? Since when is the fake experimenter in Milgram's experiment an authority figure over a volunteer who is free to disobey, discontinue, and leave at any time?

I can be and have been an authority figure; you have too. Criminals are often authority figures. The only thing it takes to be an authority figure is at least one person to perceive you as one.

This is funny too.

 

[Super Dave]

Whoever's fault it was or wasn't, it's a sad story.

 

[inactive]

I can be and have been an authority figure; you have too. Criminals are often authority figures. The only thing it takes to be an authority figure is at least one person to perceive you as one.

Indeed - you are correct.

In a backwards kind of way, this was in fact my point. It just boggles my mind for people to take direction such as "return to the place where you were just threatened at gunpoint" as authoritative advice. Yeeeeeeeeeah, I'm gonna tell them politely to pound sand. But I guess I am in the minority.

Whoever's fault it was or wasn't, it's a sad story.

Exactly. We can blame-storm this one between the dispatcher and the decedent, but either way it's a tragic deal.

 

[Glocktogo]

Because a dispatcher telling a citizen not to go out of his way to confront/pursue someone for "looking suspicious" is exactly the same thing as a dispatcher telling people to return to a place where they were just threatened by armed men.

I remember the pre-Zimmerman OSA where the consensus was CCW holders should go out of their way to avoid confrontations, even with people who had directly done them wrong, and anyone who disagreed was flamed unmercifully. The times they are a changin'.

It still applies. I've yet to read a single post stating that Zimmerman was correct in disregarding the 911 dispatchers instructions.

A 911 dispatcher has zero authority and minimal training on the law and self-defense. I would consider any 911 operator's instructions and disregard those that were not going to further my safety and security. When you call 911 for assistance, you are the defacto "On Scene Commander" until relieved by a certified emergency responder. That means you make the decisions, not them. All they can do is comply with your requests for assistance and dispatch the emergency responders. Allowing the 911 dispatcher to make decisions for you is an abdication of your personal responsibility. It may work out, but it may not.

 

[RidgeHunter]

It just boggles my mind for people to take direction such as "return to the place where you were just threatened at gunpoint" as authoritative advice. Yeeeeeeeeeah, I'm gonna tell them politely to pound sand.

I would too. We're in the distrustful minority, but even in that minority there are still commands from authority figures we would and do follow against our better judgement. I'd like to think that I wouldn't obey those that go against my own safety or morals, but so did a lot people that later did just that. If you take any average person on the street, odds are they are more likely to override their own judgement to follow an authority figure in a random scenario than they are to question one. That's the majority of people. And all people are that way to a certain degree and in certain circumstances, even you.

I had a buddy that had a job he was about to quit, and for his own entertainment he just basically started telling people he had no authority over what to do to see if they'd do it, even things that were his assignments. Everyone did them and nobody questioned him or talked to his superior about why they were being asked to do his work.

I've always wanted to do an expiration which I get a $10 card table, some scrubs, and a poster board that says "Free Flu Shots Today Only" and set up in a Quick Trip parking lot. When people sit down, I'd say "I'm not a doctor or a nurse you idiot! You were gonna let a stranger sitting at a card table in a gas station parking lot give you a shot?" I guarantee you people would line up for free flu shots from any random assclown with a card table and scrubs.

It still applies. I've yet to read a single post stating that Zimmerman was correct in disregarding the 911 dispatchers instructions.

I've read a few that said exactly that, but that doesn't matter. I didn't mean to bring that case into this case, but I'm not the one who tried to equate the two and I still think it's a poor comparison.

 

[Fatboy Joe]

Because a dispatcher telling a citizen not to go out of his way to confront/pursue someone for "looking suspicious" is exactly the same thing as a dispatcher telling people to return to a place where they were just threatened by armed men.

I remember the pre-Zimmerman OSA where the consensus was CCW holders should go out of their way to avoid confrontations, even with people who had directly done them wrong, and anyone who disagreed was flamed unmercifully. The times they are a changin'.

My point is like MLR explained above. It isn't whether a dispatcher is right or wrong, it is that a dispatcher is not in a position to tell someone what to do. As in the case with the woman who shot and killed them man in Blanchard who was breaking in her house, she asked the dispatcher if it was okay to shoot him if he entered. All the dispatcher would tell her to do is protect herself.

I have said before in one of the multiple threads dealing with Zimmerman, it is better to be a witness than on trial.

 

[indi]

Because a dispatcher telling a citizen not to go out of his way to confront/pursue someone for "looking suspicious" is exactly the same thing as a dispatcher telling people to return to a place where they were just threatened by armed men.

I remember the pre-Zimmerman OSA where the consensus was CCW holders should go out of their way to avoid confrontations, even with people who had directly done them wrong, and anyone who disagreed was flamed unmercifully. The times they are a changin'.

+1, avoiding the confrontation, IMO, is the best policy. (If possible)