Best Way to Own NFA Firearms/ Items (Personal, Trust, LLC)?

[vette447]

I am sure that this has been discussed but I can not find a satisfactory answer so I thought I would start a discussion. I have purchased a few SBR's in the last few months and they will be headed to my dealer soon. I would like to know what is the best way to own these firearms? Personally, in a Trust, or in an LLC?

What are the positives and negatives of each? I am not crazy about owning any of this stuff personally and having to get the CLEO to sign off eventhough I think he would without much problem. Also, I have a few pistols that I would like to SBR in the future and I am not crazy about engraving my name on the gun.

From what I can tell, I think the Trust option is probably the best but how do I go about setting one up correctly for minimal $$?

Thanks in Advance!!

 

[angsniper]

I believe some dealers will help you with the trust if you're buying from them but I could be wrong. It shouldn't cost much to get a trust done by an attorney I wouldn't think. My class III is under my name but if I had it to do over I'd put it in a trust.

 

[forindooruseonly]

I opted for personal ownership. CLEO sign off isn't a problem for me, and I didn't want the hassle of creating a trust through an attorney. I know some people use will maker, but I don't think I'd do that.

The main advantage of a trust, in my opinion, is the ease which several people can use the same item. As I understand it, as long as they are listed in the trust, they are allowed to use the gun. On the other hand, I don't want my guns used without me being there, so it that didn't sway me to use a trust. For others, it is the way around the CLEO sign off that is the advantage.

My attitude was this - building a trust would take just about the same time and effort as getting my CLEO to sign off and fingerprinted. The tax is the same, but the guns remain my personal property. Since the trust route is getting so popular, I also wonder how long it will be before there is a big uproar about it. I would hate to have the ATF do something unreasonable or contradictory in their rulings which jeopardized the validity of trust weapons. They have a history of having conflicting policies.

I don't know. That is the route I took. I figured I was spending thousands and thousands of dollars on multiple machine guns and the best way to protect them was to make them personal property. The argument between trust and personal ownership rages on, and I think much of it has to do with personal preference. I've never met, or even heard of, a trust owner who wasn't completely satisfied with his decision and that says something. Me, I feel better with the personal route.

 

[CAR-AR-M16]

I opted for personal ownership. CLEO sign off isn't a problem for me, and I didn't want the hassle of creating a trust through an attorney. I know some people use will maker, but I don't think I'd do that.

The main advantage of a trust, in my opinion, is the ease which several people can use the same item. As I understand it, as long as they are listed in the trust, they are allowed to use the gun. On the other hand, I don't want my guns used without me being there, so it that didn't sway me to use a trust. For others, it is the way around the CLEO sign off that is the advantage.

My attitude was this - building a trust would take just about the same time and effort as getting my CLEO to sign off and fingerprinted. The tax is the same, but the guns remain my personal property. Since the trust route is getting so popular, I also wonder how long it will be before there is a big uproar about it. I would hate to have the ATF do something unreasonable or contradictory in their rulings which jeopardized the validity of trust weapons. They have a history of having conflicting policies.

I don't know. That is the route I took. I figured I was spending thousands and thousands of dollars on multiple machine guns and the best way to protect them was to make them personal property. The argument between trust and personal ownership rages on, and I think much of it has to do with personal preference. I've never met, or even heard of, a trust owner who wasn't completely satisfied with his decision and that says something. Me, I feel better with the personal route.

+1, my sentiments exactly.

Also, I have a few pistols that I would like to SBR in the future and I am not crazy about engraving my name on the gun.

If you are filing a Form 1 to make your pistols into SBR's then you will have to engrave your info no matter if it is an individual, trust or LLC. The only way to not engrave your info is for you to buy an already existing SBR and transfer it to you on a Form 4.

 

[BobAsh]

^correct. Individuals have rights that legal constructions do not.

 

[djcorrell]

The Major uses willmaker, it is actually an ok trust. to get a better one hire an attorney and get advise. if you have any assets you should already have one. the trust through him is free. i had mine modified. the several user thing is not correct unless there is some modification to the willmaker trust. however, a trust allows a transfer after death with no problems. without a trust you get to go through probate. no fun! the entity (trust) survives you. no fingerprints, no photos, no cleo! way less hassle. i have heard that there are transfer time differences between the two, however i have heard it both ways....so? hope this helps.

an LLC can "limit liability" to assets of the company. but so does a trust if it is not the same one that all other assets are in. ie. one trust for guns, one for "other" stuff...trust 1 is an asset of trust 2 but separate assets. however the LLC will not limit negligence in use....food for thought.

 

[forindooruseonly]

several user thing is not correct unless there is some modification to the willmaker trust

I understand that if you have an attorney set it up, then the officers of the trust can be multiple people.

 

[vette447]

Has anyone who is using a trust amde an SBR on a Form 1? I am curious what you engraved on the gun. Seems like:
"John Q. and Susie Q. Doe Revocable Living Trust
OKC, OK"
would be a little long to mark on a receiver tang or something. Just curious if you can use initials to abbreviate.

Also, has anyone in the OKC area used an attorney to set up a Trust for their NFA items?

 

[tyromeo55]

Has anyone who is using a trust amde an SBR on a Form 1? I am curious what you engraved on the gun. Seems like:
"John Q. and Susie Q. Doe Revocable Living Trust
OKC, OK"
would be a little long to mark on a receiver tang or something. Just curious if you can use initials to abbreviate.

Also, has anyone in the OKC area used an attorney to set up a Trust for their NFA items?

From what I understand..... you can only abbreviate words that have common and widely used / understood meanings. OK for Oklahoma is fine because someone in Florida would still know what it stood for. In the case if a last name. there is no way to know for sure what it abbreviates so that would be a no-go

 

[jbarnett]

I bought from Major and he did a trust for me.
Definitely the easy way.