I cant imagine a deer going very far with a well placed shot from a 300. By well placed i mean heart/lungs, neck, shoulder, head. Maybe if the deer was gutshot he would go a ways, but that has nothing to do with the cartridge. I meant the fusion bullets i shot deer with didnt expand as well as the ballistic tips. I would not be afraid to shoot any game animal on the north american continent with a 165 grain ballistic tip from my 300 wsm.
T/C Encore .300win 180gr. Winchester SilverTips- Had a 75 yard blood trail that Ray Charles could follow!
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This discussion cracks me up! everytime someone ask a question they get opinions. 180gr or 200gr bullet for deer you ask? I say either will work!
Is the 300WM the best for killing deer? if ya got it in your hands and can shoot then yes it would be the best at the time.
Would I recommend a different caliber? yes but you didn't ask me too.
Later,
Kirk
Is the 300WM the best for killing deer? if ya got it in your hands and can shoot then yes it would be the best at the time.
Would I recommend a different caliber? yes but you didn't ask me too.
Later,
Kirk
Did you recover the bullet??
If not, how do you know it didn't expand??
I took a 300 win mag and a 30-06 to Africa, I killed all my animals with the 300 win mag and 180 partitions. My wife used the 30-06 loaded with 180 grain Remington core locks on a springbok that didn't weigh 75 pound field dressed. I guarantee that bullet expanded!
No we didn't recover the bullets, because they popped right through leaving an entrance and exit wound of the same size. The entrance and exit wounds and very light blood trails were proof of the bullets' failure to expand inside the animal. My FIL had the same experience on antelope. I was not there to personaly witness it, but saw pics of the animal after it was skinned and heard the story.
I don't doubt that they will work I've just seen them not work often enough that I cannot recommend them for deer. For me its like mechanical broadheads, will they work, yes, have I seen them have issues that I haven't seen with fixed blades, yes.
I have seen 180gr bullets work just fine out of a 30-06. I'm not sure if the slower velocity has anything to do with it ( I know it doesn't make sense), but the exit wounds weren't near the size of the 150, 165, and 168gr bullets I've used.
The Core-Loks I've seen tend to be softer than most bullets.
To each his own! Go whack em and stackem.
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This
Sounds to me like 300WSM and bigcountryok are speaking from *experience*, not from a "myth".
Okay, so here's my ignerntass opinion. I bought an A-Bolt in .300 WSM when they first came out because a magazine article convinced me I couldn't live without it.
It was my elk rifle even though I had pretty much quit hunting elk although you never know.
I didn't have a whole lot of time for hunting ten or so years ago, so when my 7mm/08 went squirrelly on me before deer season I put it in the back of the safe where it could keep company with my worthless 700 ADL.
Took out the .300 WSM and went hunting. Winchester factory ammunition. 150 grain bullet. How much of what kind of powder? NO FREAKING idea.
Muzzel energy: Pretty good.
How low will it be at three hundred yards with a 200 yard zero: Not all that low.
I took the damn thing deer hunting. Shot a pretty good buck at about eighty yards, and he collapsed as if hit by lightening. His legs just folded and he never even twitched. You rarely ever see that. Lots of deer die on the spot, but they're kicking and gasping which, the older I get, the harder it is to look at.
So I found my best rifle.
I go see my banker and tell him I need a box of shells for deer season, and he tells me that every time someone calls me a goofball behind my back he defends me, but he's beginning to wonder.
My cousin thinks that the rifle was bought to prove what a big man I was but it was actually bought to prove what a whineyasstitybaby he was.
Times change and we change with them.
It was my elk rifle even though I had pretty much quit hunting elk although you never know.
I didn't have a whole lot of time for hunting ten or so years ago, so when my 7mm/08 went squirrelly on me before deer season I put it in the back of the safe where it could keep company with my worthless 700 ADL.
Took out the .300 WSM and went hunting. Winchester factory ammunition. 150 grain bullet. How much of what kind of powder? NO FREAKING idea.
Muzzel energy: Pretty good.
How low will it be at three hundred yards with a 200 yard zero: Not all that low.
I took the damn thing deer hunting. Shot a pretty good buck at about eighty yards, and he collapsed as if hit by lightening. His legs just folded and he never even twitched. You rarely ever see that. Lots of deer die on the spot, but they're kicking and gasping which, the older I get, the harder it is to look at.
So I found my best rifle.
I go see my banker and tell him I need a box of shells for deer season, and he tells me that every time someone calls me a goofball behind my back he defends me, but he's beginning to wonder.
My cousin thinks that the rifle was bought to prove what a big man I was but it was actually bought to prove what a whineyasstitybaby he was.
Times change and we change with them.
All my hunting buddies except the one who hunts in Africa kid me about using my .375 H&H to shoot deer. Basically I get a .375 hole in and out, a down right now deer, and can eat right up to the wound channel. 300 grain bullet shoots about like a 30-06, and is great out to about 250.
Basically with deer, it's whatever blows your skirt up. CB
Basically with deer, it's whatever blows your skirt up. CB
What did the lungs look like?? Unless the hole through the lungs was caliber size, the bullet expanded.
Even if a 30 cal bullet expands to twice its original size, you are only talking .6". I have seen small exit wounds too, but the lungs were jello. I suspect the offside hide stretched as the bullet was exiting and the hole was smaller than expected due to that stretching. The biggest exit wounds I have observed resulted from hitting bone which turned into secondary projectiles and also exited.
Here is an interesting video from Barnes. The video shows a .308″ 180 grain Barnes Triple-Shock X Bullet fired into a 6″x6″x16″ gelatin block at 2907 fps. You can clearly see that the bullet is expanded as it exits the gelatin.
http://www.barnesbullets.com/videos/308_180gr_TSX_6fps_logo.mov
Since Barnes Triple Shock bullets are all copper, which is tougher to deform than a standard cup and core bullet (copper jacket with lead core), we can expect a standard cup and core bullet to expand at least as well as the triple shock. I would also expect MORE expansion in a deer than I would in gelatin.
Notice also, the temporary wound cavity as the bullet passes through the gelatin. The cavity is larger as the bullet is passing through, but partially closes behind the bullet after the shock wave dissipates. Keep in mind, an animal's hide contains this expansion by stretching, at least until the elastic limit of the skin is reached.
As far as the lack of blood trails, I have seen wounds plugged by fat or other tissue that held the blood inside the deer until it started blowing blood out its nose and mouth. If this happens and the animal dies before going far enough to start blowing blood, there may not be much of a blood trail.
Back to the 180 core lock bullets. I shot a large bull elk with a 300 mag loaded with the same lot of 180 grain core lock bullets that my wife used on the springbok in Africa. I shot the bull at less than 50 yards through the chest, the bullet exited. I also took some of the left over 30-06 180 core lock reloads to Texas on a hog hunt. Killed a bore that weighed about 80 pounds dressed. The 180 core lock expanded and exited, from what I have observed, 180 grain partitions would have done the same.
Having said all of that, I have a small stash of the old Nosler 165 grain solid base bullets that I load when I want to hunt deer with a 300 mag. I use them because they are the most accurate bullet I have found in that rifle. I shot a bull elk with these bullets from the 300 win mag and did not get an exit wound, so I reserve them for deer.
Tell you what, I have shot big game animals including deer, elk, pronghorn antelope, blackbuck antelope, hogs, javelina, zebra, kudu, gemsbok and probably a few others I can't remember. I have used rifles in 22-250, 243, 7-08, 7mm rem SAUM, 30 remington, 308, 30-06 300 win mag, 50 caliber muzzleloader and probably a few others. I have shot them with handguns in 6mm Rem ackley improved, 250 savage, 257 JDJ, 25x308, 30-30, 309 JDJ, 44 mag and, again, probably a couple I can't think of right now. I haven't kept count, but I'd guess (conservatively) that I have killed over 100 big game animals. I have probably seen double that amount that were killed by friends and family and I have NEVER seen a bullet fail to expand.
Maybe you can explain how a 180 grain Barnes triple X bullet, one of the toughest premium 30 caliber bullets, will expand in a ballistic gelatin block, but a plain old cup and core bullet made by hornady, remington, sierra etc won't expand in a deer???
The size of the exit wound is not a perfect indicator of bullet expansion. It's not uncommon for a standard cup and core bullet to come apart or shed the copper jacket inside the animal and the lead core, or part of it, will exit resulting in a small exit wound, but that does not mean the bullet didn't expand.
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