FBI switching to 9mm

[Coded-Dude]

Ballistics are similar, arguably negligible(depening on the bullet), but not the same(again depending on the bullet).
Price, number of rounds available, and less felt recoil from a polymer gun for easier follow up shots were probably the leading factors, but that is all just speculation.

 

[Sanford]

One should just remember the parameters of the FBI's test:

The Ballistic Research Facility has conducted a test which compares similar sized Glock pistols in both .40 S&W and 9mm calibers, to determine if more accurate and faster hits are achievable with one versus the other. To date, the majority of the study participants have shot more quickly and more accurately with 9mm caliber Glock pistols.

Only two calibers were tested in only one pistol design. What that means is that with the exception of 9mm and .40 Glock shooters, the outcome of this test is irrelevant.

 

[OKCShooter]

One should just remember the parameters of the FBI's test:



Only two calibers were tested in only one pistol design. What that means is that with the exception of 9mm and .40 Glock shooters, the outcome of this test is irrelevant.

Well, since the FBI knows about the existence of the .45 round, it means the .45 didn't even make the top 2!

Maybe this thread needs to be debating 9mm vs .40

 

[ronny]

Oh! Please! Go back and erase that.

 

[MoBoost]

One should just remember the parameters of the FBI's test:

Only two calibers were tested in only one pistol design. What that means is that with the exception of 9mm and .40 Glock shooters, the outcome of this test is irrelevant.

And since Glock does make a 45ACP pistol ... what does that tell you?

P.S. Why is this conversation a lot easier with those who shoot both 9mm and 45ACP under stress (aka competition environment)?

 

[Sanford]

Well, since the FBI knows about the existence of the .45 round, it means the .45 didn't even make the top 2!

And since Glock does make a 45ACP pistol ... what does that tell you?

All it tells me is that the purpose of the test was to determine whether to go back to 9mm or stay with the .40 they converted to when 9mm failed so miserably after the 1986 Miami shootout - not that it actually did, but the gummint always has to find somewhere to point the blame other than at failed training or tactics.

Maybe this thread needs to be debating 9mm vs .40

Maybe there's no point in debating anything. The FBI may be going from .40 back to 9mm, and the Army may be going from 9mm to something else. Maybe the FBI's just gearing up to grab onto all those surplus M9's so they can divert their firearms budget to new coffee makers or something.

P.S. Why is this conversation a lot easier with those who shoot both 9mm and 45ACP under stress (aka competition environment)?

Competition environment is stress? When did they start shooting back? Oh, wait - I forgot about that nifty simunitions paintball stuff.

In any case - it's been fun but I'm going to quit before I end up repeating someone else's arguments. I'll just leave you with the following.

I first fell in love with SiG pistols in 1976 during an international military competition - Swiss P220's and German P6's, both chambered in 9mm. When we did the swap to shoot the other forces' weapons they both felt great in my hands but I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with them after the first round because I overcompensated for recoil on followup shots. When I got my hands on one chambered for .45 several years later that problem was resolved (along with having its mag release on the side instead of the bottom of the grip) and it became my weapon of choice; I still prefer variants of it to other pistols. Have had a lot more practice since those days, too - but even though I got where I could shoot 9mm with reasonable accuracy I'm still a wee bit faster with my SiG, especially in a multiple target scenario. I might eventually get better with 9mm, but I'm mostly just about maintaining existing skills since my eyesight just doesn't support any kind of serious competition any more. I do think I'd like to try out one of SiG's new 10mm P220's if I can ever get my hands on one, though.

 

[MoBoost]

Competition environment is stress? When did they start shooting back? Oh, wait - I forgot about that nifty simunitions paintball stuff.

Sorry, you are right. Competition does not help in training of deployment, manipulation and engagement with your weapon under time limit induced stress. I don't even know what I was thinking ... the intentional ignorance you are spewing on the internet is by far more stressful! I am sure you can learn a lot more about shooting by copying .gov papers at 10 cents a page instead of actual shooting live ammo. Oh, and god forbid you use something other than "the God Round" - just the thought of not firing a 45ACP is a heresy in-itself and should be avoided.

 

[MoBoost]

Nice edit ... LOL

Post the picture of your 45 and 9mm to gain some of that credibility back.

I want to see what kind of 45 transitions faster than a "what kind of" 9mm.

 

[Sanford]

Sorry, you are right. Competition does not help in training of deployment, manipulation and engagement with your weapon under time limit induced stress. I don't even know what I was thinking ... the intentional ignorance you are spewing on the internet is by far more stressful! I am sure you can learn a lot more about shooting by copying .gov papers at 10 cents a page instead of actual shooting live ammo. Oh, and god forbid you use something other than "the God Round" - just the thought of not firing a 45ACP is a heresy in-itself and should be avoided.

You miss the point - I wasn't arguing the value of competition as a training tool, just the "stress" part. A good round of speed chess is as stressful, but neither comes close to the kind of stress involved in a real life shooting scenario. But that's okay, I bow to your superior knowledge, experience, ability, intelligence, good looks, health, wealth, eye color, and anything else you want - I can tell from your posts that you're quite obviously the #1 shooter on OSA.

 

[Sanford]

Nice edit ... LOL

Post the picture of your 45 and 9mm to gain some of that credibility back.

I want to see what kind of 45 transitions faster than a "what kind of" 9mm.

Pictures wouldn't serve any purpose because skill is about the shooter, not the gun. Besides, I really couldn't care less what you think about my credibility.