I'm gay...and black. ~ NBA center

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caojyn

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Certainly good and evil exist, but is that really all there is? If there is only good and evil, how do you explain the story of Joseph in Genesis? His jealous brothers sold him into slavery and told their father that a wild animal had killed him. Much later when they were reunited, Joseph told them that what they had done was meant to be evil but God had used it for good. Because of their evil act, his family was saved from famine and the Jews developed into a mighty nation. I believe that God uses people to accomplish his will in many ways beyond our limited understanding.

Moral of the story "evil has its uses." I don't disagree with that
 

Dale00

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Times change. They do. Times change. And before anyone gives me the line about "The Word of God does not change"...let me call BS. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." We used to burn witches at the stake. Now there is a large pagan movement. If you tried to burn a witch in the name of Jesus, you'd be arrested for attempted murder.

JB, I refer you to my earlier post on page 3 of this thread in which I linked to http://carm.org/should-homosexuals-be-put-to-death
"Not suffering witches to live" was a commandment directed to the Jews at a time long ago when there was a Theocratic Jewish government. Such commandments went away with the end of that phase of history.

No one thinks that the witch trials at Salem were right so please don't brand anyone as a witch burner. The bible does not need to rewritten or reinterpreted in light of "changing times." People just need a more thorough and circumspect understanding of it.
 

dutchwrangler

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Certainly good and evil exist, but is that really all there is? If there is only good and evil, how do you explain the story of Joseph in Genesis? His jealous brothers sold him into slavery and told their father that a wild animal had killed him. Much later when they were reunited, Joseph told them that what they had done was meant to be evil but God had used it for good. Because of their evil act, his family was saved from famine and the Jews developed into a mighty nation. I believe that God uses people to accomplish his will in many ways beyond our limited understanding.

Since I'm a deist I don't attempt to explain anything in the bible as I view it as a book of compiled stories and myths that make a point about human behaviors. My view of "God" is that of a force (kharma) instead of a spiritual being. None of the behaviors exhibited by mankind is necessary for God to have initiated and serves no purpose of benefit to himself if he is a spiritual being. God doesn't need man. I view religion and the "holy books" as nothing more than an attempt by early men to explain causes and effects that they observed in the natural world surrounding them because of the lack of scientific understanding. As we learn more through science the truths of the natural world will come about and the myths and demand for "faith" will diminish. Ganted it won't happen in my lifetime so in the meantime I get to listen to the stories of religious folk which I find amusing.
 

flatwins

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His announcement was worth a personal phone call and an "atta boy" from the POTUS it seems.

OSA's resident crotchety bastege checking in-

I'm assuming that this actually happened and if so, I'm not surprised. Our current presidential place-holder is so infatuated with the topic that I wonder if he should just come out himself.

As for me, I really don't care one way or the other but I think making a big news story out of this "huge" announcement just demonstrates the worthlessness of the American media.
 

nofearfactor

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This would be a great time to thank the veterans of foreign wars on the forum and off for fighting for our country, not only protecting us from harm but protecting our rights as well as our freedoms. IMO, rights and freedoms go hand in hand. We want our 2nd Amendment rights, and we're going to fight to the death to keep them. Well then the people who want their freedoms should have their freedoms too, as long as they dont hurt themselves or other people, and they should be able to fight for their freedoms. I am 100% behind both- I want my 2nd Amendment rights same as I want the freedoms to do whatever I want as long as I dont harm myself or others.
 
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TedKennedy

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I'm in the "who cares?" camp. I just plain do not give a damn.

However, if you wish to know why the conservative movement is losing ground, the reaction in this thread is a good example.

Just as you do not wish the Left to dictate your gun rights, the Gays (and many others) don't want you to dictate their personal lives. (Please no puns on my choice of the word "dictate").

Times change. They do. Times change. And before anyone gives me the line about "The Word of God does not change"...let me call BS. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." We used to burn witches at the stake. Now there is a large pagan movement. If you tried to burn a witch in the name of Jesus, you'd be arrested for attempted murder.

The conservative movement is either going to evolve or go the way of the Whigs. That doesn't mean we have to sell out our morals and values, but we do have to really embrace what the Founders gave us....a system that pretty much allows us to pursue our own unique visions of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

We used to burn witches, and you know - we didn't have a witch problem for HUNDREDS of years! Now, we're all relaxed and non-judgemental, and we again get infested with witches. I always knew those folks in Salem did the right thing.
 

cjjtulsa

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I'm in the "who cares?" camp. I just plain do not give a damn.

Agreed. The guy could have just kept it to himself, as what organs he prefers is his business, and doesn't concern me. Put me in the "IDGAF" camp.

Just as you do not wish the Left to dictate your gun rights, the Gays (and many others) don't want you to dictate their personal lives. (Please no puns on my choice of the word "dictate").

Agree again, though as far as I'm concerned, marriage is a construct based on religion, therefore the government should have nothing to do with it or have any say-so in it. Of course, it was necessary for them to do so, as there are licenses to sell, etc. Money, money, money. Kill anything linking the .gov to marriage (tax issues, licensing, etc.), and leave matrimony to the churches. If you're atheist, then live together - whatever. No ceremony necessary. Draw up something and have a notary stamp it for all I care.

Times change. They do. Times change.

Yes, they do. But sometimes change isn't necessarily a good thing or a bad thing. Should we accept homosexuality? I guess; you can equate it with a birth defect, as if they are indeed born with that orientation then it is truly a birth defect, as sexual attraction to a mate that does not possess the biological equipment to reproduce isn't natural. Doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong - but it's certainly not biologically "normal". As with a person with Down's Syndrome, that particular condition isn't "normal", but it's acceptable, as it is a condition that exists due to no fault of the person afflicted. Incidentally, we don't have "Down's Syndrome Pride" parades, bumper stickers celebrating it, etc. Play the hand you're dealt without flaunting it and at least some of the hostility will die out.

The conservative movement is either going to evolve or go the way of the Whigs. That doesn't mean we have to sell out our morals and values, but we do have to really embrace what the Founders gave us....a system that pretty much allows us to pursue our own unique visions of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Yes and no. Yes, we need to embrace what the founders gave us, but to posit that we "need to evolve" is dead wrong. Which way is the "conservative" party evolving? Hard left, and as such, they are now more "Democrat" than "Republican". And so long as the left continues to run hell bent to the hard left, the faux conservatives will keep chasing the dangling carrot to try and recruit members from a pool that will never vote Republican, to try and staunch the bleeding. True conservatism is dying, and we may as well go down with our principals than to become Marxists hiding under the banner of conservatism. After all, do we really succeed if the end result is becoming just what our opposition is, only under a different name? The winner of that contest is obvious. It's already too late.
 

TedKennedy

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The winner of that contest is obvious. It's already too late.

This may last for another generation or three, but Nature has a way of refining what should be. There are groups (well-meaning, of course) that by their actions ensure their own destruction. The Gay Pride folks are taking advantage of that, and who can blame them? When Americans are afraid to speak their mind for fear of being called "intolerant, bigoted, racist, sexist, etc..etc..etc...we have lost the country to those that assign us those titles.

Humans have been around for thousands of years, and certain truths have become evident. Cultures are built around those truths. Those that deny the truth will ultimately be corrected, and Nature will again put things right.
 

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