Why don't you throw 454 Casull into the mix and make your statement more absurd. We are obviously discussing normal self defense calibers. I submit 5 rounds of .45 or .40 quality SD loads, placed center mass, will stop a BG faster than 9mm. To deny it is living in la la land. The point is pick a round that you can place well and quickly. A 9 used well is better than a 45 that you can't put on target. Simple as that!!.
I read the FBI's latest report and took it a step further and read some of the research material that they refer to in the report. The most convincing was from a Physician who is also a gun guy. After years of working ER and seeing hundreds of GSW's, he has come to the conclusion that calibers 9,40, and 45 are basically a wash. They are all underpowered pistol rounds. You basically have three ways of stopping a bad guy with bullets. They are exsanguation (mass blood loss), damaged to the brain stem, and severe enough trama to the spinal cord to stop signals from going from point A to point B. All that said, it takes 10-15 seconds for a well placed heart shot to exsan a person to the point of imminent death with a single GSW from any on the three. Brain stem shots are rare and aiming at a moving targets brain stem is a recipe for death, FOR YOU. Same can be said for spinal injuries.
So, what does all this mean to us? It means that you can create all the fancy bullets you want, shoot them in any platform and caliber you prefer, but if your not properly placing MULTIPLE hits to areas of interest, your are likely to still be hand to hand with a bad guy intent on reaching you, or jacked up on a designer substance.
The answer is training! As it always has been. Find a caliber you like, weigh the pros and cons of bullet size versus ammo capacity and shoot the damned thing! I've been shooting for decades and training others for years. One of the most helpful training techniques is to train under adverse conditions. Find a way to introduce stress into the training environment is a controlled, safe manner. If you are having to mentally answer multiple "shoot, don't shoot" questions against moving targets all while listening for commands, your are teaching you mind to not lock in on a single issue such as putting a hole in a piece of paper that isn't moving or offering resistance. TAKE A CLASS!! You can learn enough in one or two classes of defensive shooting techniques to adapt and modify your own shooting program to introduce some of these stressors, safely.
One thing I've started teaching some of my LE buddies is to consider the nature of the bad guy and act accordingly. If you place a couple well placed shots on a guy and he is still advancing as if untouched, there is a good chance he is under the influence of something bad. Consider options to get this guy on the ground! For instance, if you place a couple well placed shots into the pelvis region, there is a good chance you will interrupt the structure. Bad guys cannot chase you if you break their pelvis. I don't care how high they are, if the wheels are broke, they cannot walk, period...
So, what does all this mean to us? It means that you can create all the fancy bullets you want, shoot them in any platform and caliber you prefer, but if your not properly placing MULTIPLE hits to areas of interest, your are likely to still be hand to hand with a bad guy intent on reaching you, or jacked up on a designer substance.
The answer is training! As it always has been. Find a caliber you like, weigh the pros and cons of bullet size versus ammo capacity and shoot the damned thing! I've been shooting for decades and training others for years. One of the most helpful training techniques is to train under adverse conditions. Find a way to introduce stress into the training environment is a controlled, safe manner. If you are having to mentally answer multiple "shoot, don't shoot" questions against moving targets all while listening for commands, your are teaching you mind to not lock in on a single issue such as putting a hole in a piece of paper that isn't moving or offering resistance. TAKE A CLASS!! You can learn enough in one or two classes of defensive shooting techniques to adapt and modify your own shooting program to introduce some of these stressors, safely.
One thing I've started teaching some of my LE buddies is to consider the nature of the bad guy and act accordingly. If you place a couple well placed shots on a guy and he is still advancing as if untouched, there is a good chance he is under the influence of something bad. Consider options to get this guy on the ground! For instance, if you place a couple well placed shots into the pelvis region, there is a good chance you will interrupt the structure. Bad guys cannot chase you if you break their pelvis. I don't care how high they are, if the wheels are broke, they cannot walk, period...
I really like the 40 and 45, but I carry the 9 most of the time cause I've gotten to lazy to carry anything heaver.
Not getting ride of my 40 anytime soon.
Not getting ride of my 40 anytime soon.
Wasn't intending to imply that 10mm FBI Lite and .40 Short and Wimpy were the same thing (though I can see how it looked that way), just that it was a progenitor.
9mm is all I carry anymore. Capacity, availability and capability (HST or Gold Dots are plenty capable).
I sold all my "pocket carry" revolvers specifically so I wouldn't be tempted to carry them anymore. I still have a .357mag here and there but don't carry them when away from home.
Unfortunately, this is not true. You most certainly can physically walk with a broken pelvis and people do it all the time. Throw mind-altering substances into the mix like you're talking about and a pelvic fracture won't do shite.
Now, a HIP or FEMUR fracture may very well do the trick... the pelvis isn't as critical for support and weight-bearing as the hip and femur are. Of course... this goes back to the same issue of trying to aim at a smaller target area rather than center of mass.
In short, no way I'm going to advocate for anything other than center-of-mass targeting.
Half my friends own .40, the other half own 9mm.
If anything, I think .45 acp is on the decline.
A round's popularity also has jack s**t to do with its effectiveness.
I personally think .357 sig and .40 s&w are lousy calibers that don't offer very much advantage for how much pressure, recoil, and muzzle flash they have. Even the nerfed 10mm loads are better than .40
If anything, I think .45 acp is on the decline.
A round's popularity also has jack s**t to do with its effectiveness.
I personally think .357 sig and .40 s&w are lousy calibers that don't offer very much advantage for how much pressure, recoil, and muzzle flash they have. Even the nerfed 10mm loads are better than .40
Still, the best one-shot-stop of all time is a 357 magnum with a 125 gr. JHP @ 1,500 fps...
A coroner will tell you that the a bullet in the middle of the the chest - "between the nipples" WILL drop the BG, no matter what what they are hopped up on!
From FBI reports over the past 20 years, when law enforcement got away from revolvers, and went strictly to semi-automatic handguns, the mortality rate for law enforcement officers, made a drastic increase...
A good 357 magnum is inherently more accurate than the semi-auto's, and is much easier to control than most .40 cals, and a lot easier than most .45's...
Yeah, I know this has nothing to do with the 40 S&W. Just my 2 cents worth...
A coroner will tell you that the a bullet in the middle of the the chest - "between the nipples" WILL drop the BG, no matter what what they are hopped up on!
From FBI reports over the past 20 years, when law enforcement got away from revolvers, and went strictly to semi-automatic handguns, the mortality rate for law enforcement officers, made a drastic increase...
A good 357 magnum is inherently more accurate than the semi-auto's, and is much easier to control than most .40 cals, and a lot easier than most .45's...
Yeah, I know this has nothing to do with the 40 S&W. Just my 2 cents worth...
Last edited:
