It's Final -- Corn Ethanol Is Of No Use

[Nraman]

Yup, I have an 11 F150 with the ecoboost engine. When I got it I tested different fuel grades to see if I saw any difference in performance (very subjective) and mileage (objective w/a handy dandy calculator). I shoot down a few country roads and hit the highway for about 2 miles before rolling on to the base. I make a few short trips into town, but not much changes week to week. My driving is very consistent, both where and how, so it's a pretty good test. I ran 2 tanks of each: 87 octane, 91 octane and 10%etOH and compared numbers. I lost almost 2mpg with the etOH gas and had no changes between premium and regular. In the city, my new, fancy, 'fuel saving' engine got almost the same mileage as my 01 F-150 with the old 5.4L. My mileage jumped from 13 to 15mpg when I dropped etOH.
It's not a monthly budge buster, but filling up with the 'more expensive' 87 w/o etOH, I"m saving about $10/month based on my driving habits. With all of the etOH negatives, I can't fathom why I'd pay more for an inferior product.


3.8mi/$ I drive ~1125mi/month = $269/month @13mpg
4.3mi/$ 1125mi/month = $261/mo @ 15mpg

this is assuming $3.40 for etOH and $3.50 for 87

I have a Jeep Cherokee and I found out that they secretly started mixing ethanol when I became part of a mileage research on a 4x4 forum.
I kept precise records and all of a sudden I lost power (it downshifted in areas that it didn't previously) and dropped about 2.5mpg.
I went nuts trying to figure out what the problem was, I even ended up replacing my O2 sensors in case they were slowing down, nothing.
Then one day (Christmas eve) I read an article on ethanol. I started calling around and I found that except for some 66 stations everybody went to 10%
ethanol. I even got to talk to the Shell expert in Houston, he was driving home early for Christmas and since he was officially still on the clock, he got the call
on his cell. He verified the ethanol.
We pay like idiots at the pump, through our taxes, loss of performance and mileage, damage to engines.
Nobody ever complains.

 

[Okie4570]

Except for all the other grain markets. When corn goes down it usually drags other grains down with it. Historically speaking grains are stupid cheap. If the grain markets had kept up with inflation, we would be getting $25/bu for wheat and $20 for corn and god knows what for beans.



Just look at these charts.

http://futures.tradingcharts.com/historical/CW/2013/0/continuous.html

Wheat was trading in the $3-4 range in the late 70s/early 80s. It stayed at or below that range until the mid 2000s. Now how much did a tractor cost in 1980? A new one was about 25k. Now a new one approaches $200k or more. A new truck? Maybe $7-8k. What's a new one cost now? $50k. How about fertilizer and land costs? Fuel?

Call me crazy but grain commodities in particular are dirt azz cheap comparatively speaking. Just pisses me off when people ***** about the price of milk and bread. They have no idea what it takes to fill their bellies.

Sorry to get off on a tangent but there is absolutely no food being taken out of anyone's mouth by ethanol.

Only non wheat producers can look at this link.......http://www.automationinformation.com/Favorites/wheat_prices.

 

[MoBoost]

It may be easy to blame broken crap on ethanol, at the same time there are some facts that cannot be denied.
Your mileage will drop. I don't care what you drive, ethanol doesn't have as many calories as gas and cannot give you the same mileage.
Engine power will drop for the same reason, that the ethanol has less energy.

You are forgetting that ethanol has much higher octane, even 10% makes 87 into 89-93 octane. Considering that thermal efficiency of internal combustion engine sucks bad, the "calorie" count is not a major concern in usable power production.

 

[Nraman]

You are forgetting that ethanol has much higher octane, even 10% makes 87 into 89-93 octane. Considering that thermal efficiency of internal combustion engine sucks bad, the "calorie" count is not a major concern in usable power production.

The mileage drops, the power drops. It's a fact.
If you car has a knock problem the ethanol will probably help it. For cars with no problem it is a losing proposition.
We are talking for regular cars, race cars tuned for cheap ethanol instead of expensive racing gas, it makes sense.

 

[MoBoost]

Drove my wife's 2006 HHR to panhandle and back this weekend, cruise control 65-70mph.
Filled it up with E10 at MWC OnCue, and again when I got back today.
EPA highway gas milage rating: 28mpg

If my math is correct - that's just above 31MPG.
For "pure" 87 to catch up, the car would have to get over 34MPG ... and it's just not happening.

You should worry less about the 10% of you gas and worry about your car health:

- tire pressure
- tire compound
- alignment
- air filter
- oil grade and weight
- transmission
- crap hanging off the back and the top of the car
- idling
- driving habits (accelerate hard, brake late, etc).

I am not trying to be a hard-ass - but politically driven intentional misinformation gets on my nerves!

 

[Buddhaman]

I was doing some work to my pushmower today and browsed Honda's small engine site. Direct from it

-ethanol has 28% less energy density than gasoline, so it reduces fuel efficiency.
-ethanol is an excellent solvent, drying agent, and cleanser. It will clean or dissolve some parts of, and deposits in, fuel storage and fuel delivery systems, including some fuel tank materials. The dissolved material can clog filters or pass through and leave deposits on fuel injectors, fuel pumps, fuel pressure regulators, carburetor jets, intake tracts, and valve guides.

Thanks Honda, for helping me continue not using ethanol blended gasoline in anything I own.

 

[Okie4570]

What does Honda recommend/advise about its use in their autos?

 

[piston10]

What does Honda recommend/advise about its use in their autos?

I have worked for Chevrolet, ford, gmc, Buick, Saturn, Honda, geo, Toyota, and now Infiniti, I don't recall any of the manufacturers having a recommendation against using it. In 18 years and all those cars I have never seen an issue that I could blame on it. Lots of GM truck owners tried to blame fuel pump failures on it, but that was just ****** fuel pumps.

 

[Buddhaman]

What does Honda recommend/advise about its use in their autos?

I can't find anything about recommended fuels for automobiles. The mower is a 2006 Troy-Bilt with a Honda 160cc engine, 4stroke with OHC, and it recommended no ethanol for it. I've had varying issues with ethanol in my 2000 Camry and my wife's 2005 Scion, mainly lack of power and suffering mileage by 2-3mpg. I think that even if I had a new car that had all the correct elastomers and materials I wouldn't put ethanol in it unless there were no other options. But that's just me.

 

[piston10]

I can't find anything about recommended fuels for automobiles. The mower is a 2006 Troy-Bilt with a Honda 160cc engine, 4stroke with OHC, and it recommended no ethanol for it. I've had varying issues with ethanol in my 2000 Camry and my wife's 2005 Scion, mainly lack of power and suffering mileage by 2-3mpg. I think that even if I had a new car that had all the correct elastomers and materials I wouldn't put ethanol in it unless there were no other options. But that's just me.

I will agree with this. I have had a lot of customer experience the power loss and the reduction in fuel economy, but zero part failures.