Lower velocity loads

[Fyrtwuck]

I've been reloading for quite a few years and I want to try and customize some loads for different semiauto .45 ACP pistols that I have.

I want to be able to use the minimum amount of powder in the load but still maintain reliable function. I know that if you exceed the maximum amount listed in the reloading books it could cause a kaboom. Using less than what is listed in the manual, other than a bullet sticking in the barrel, is there a danger of a kaboom if not enough powder is used?

The powder I'm using is Titegroup. The minimum load listed for a 200 grain LSWC bullet is 4.2 grains.

My goal in this experiment is less wear and tear on both me and the guns. (Can you tell I'm bored?)

 

[Blitzfike]

The most danger with reduced powder loads is with the fast burning powders like bullseye. Back in the early '70s several of the police departments in the country that were loading practice loads in 38 spl were experiencing blown up guns. Smith and Wesson and Colt both denied any problem with the guns and pointed fingers at double charges etc.. NRA labs were able to duplicate the problem with very low charges of bullseye causing what they called detonation. It seems that the small charge of powder was dispersed within the case by the primer flash prior to being ignited creating something like a dust explosion. The powder granules were all being ignited at once rather than in layers as in a normal case charge. Using fillers to hold the charge in place mitigated the problem to a great extent. Just something historical to consider as you experiment. Good luck and definitely keep us posted, this is what I really like.... Blitzfike

 

[Fyrtwuck]

I wanted to do a little research before I tried it. I haven't found anything so far that indicates it would be a problem. My manuals all state not to load in excess of what is posted, but they don't mention reduced loads.

I was thinking of (for example) loading 2 grains below the posted data and then work my way up to the load that works best 1/2 grain at a time. I planned on loading an experimental round and then a dummy round. This would allow me to shoot one round and then see if the slide cycles and loads the dummy round like it should. Inspect the barrel between tests. When I'm satisfied with the function, I'll move on to more rounds in the magazine.

 

[Rod Snell]

If you get some reduced power recoil springs, some HP38 and some SHORT lead bullets to help prevent bullet sticking, it is possible to get down to around 600fps and have the gun work.
Course at that speed, you're just above sticking the bullet. Be careful!!

Plated and jacketed stick much quicker than moderately soft lead.

 

[Blitzfike]

I went out and did some searching on the detonation issue, I remember the discussions at the time, but all I can find now debunks that theory about bullseye. Here is a link to a good article about that issue.. Blitzfike
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_4_46/ai_60034182/

 

[Fyrtwuck]

If you get some reduced power recoil springs, some HP38 and some SHORT lead bullets to help prevent bullet sticking, it is possible to get down to around 600fps and have the gun work.
Course at that speed, you're just above sticking the bullet. Be careful!!

Plated and jacketed stick much quicker than moderately soft lead.

I'm going to be using 200 grain lead semi-wadcutter bullets.

My idea is to custom make the bullet for the gun. I don't want to get into spending lots of money on different springs that I may never use again. I went to the range last week and noticed the differences while shooting the different guns. Different spring weights, ejection patterns and felt recoil. I'm curious about how much difference powder loads will vary from gun to gun. I'll be using the same powder, bullet, and primers. Brass may vary.

I'm trying this experiment with a Glock 21SF, a Springfield XDM45, A Sig-P220 and a S&W 645. I may dig the S&W 1911PD out of the back of the safe and try it too.

So far, my research hasn't found any incident of blowing a gun up. I've had squib loads myself that resulted in a bullet stuck in the barrel. It may end up being too much trouble trying to load a specific load for a specific gun. I may just decide to find a single load that will work on all the guns and go from there.

 

[Fyrtwuck]

This is the experiment I did today to test light loads in a .45 ACP with different guns. I’m pretty pleased with the results I had. Later on I’ll set up a second experiment with even lighter loads and post the results. The guns used were a Springfield Armory XDM-45, Glock 21SF, and a Sig Sauer P-220. There were a total of 50 rounds tested for each powder loading. 100 rounds total were fired.

Bullet: 200 grain Lead Semi Wadcutter bullet. (LSWC)
Powder: Hogdons Titegroup.
Primers: CCI Standard Large Pistol primers.
Brass: Various

4.5 grains

Gun #: 1 Springfield XDM-45
Function: No FTF or FTE
Recoil: Very little
Ejection: About 3 feet.

Gun #2: Glock 21SF
Function: No FTF or FTE
Recoil: Very little
Ejection: About 2 feet.

Gun #3: Sig Sauer P-220
Function: No FTF or FTE
Recoil: More than I expected. A little snap to the wrist.
Ejection: About 12 feet.

Test #2
4.0 grains.
Gun #: 1 Springfield XDM-45
Function: No FTF or FTE
Recoil: Very little
Ejection: About 1 foot.

Gun #2: Glock 21SF
Function: No FTF or FTE
Recoil: Very little
Ejection: Brass was hitting me on the top of my head.

Gun #3: Sig Sauer P-220
Function: No FTF or FTE
Recoil: Medium recoil.
Ejection: About 5 feet.

I was really surprised that none of the loads resulted in a FTF or FTE. The ejection patterns were noticeable, especially with the Sig Sauer P-220. This pistol really slings brass. I shot some full power loaded bullets after the experiment and the brass was landing up to 25 feet away.

 

[Glocktogo]

The Sig unlocks with more pressure in the barrel than the others, making recoil and ejection much more brisk. This is the reason I never cared for it, despite it's excellent accuracy.

I run 4.0 grains of Clays under a 230gr FMJ and get an average of 755 fps, or 173 power factor in a 5" 1911. You can get all the way down round 150PF (650 fps) with a 230 before it starts to get erratic. At that level you might need to run a 12-14# recoil spring. The old bullseye shooters might go as low as a 10# mainspring on a properly tuned gun/load combo.

 

[Fyrtwuck]

I'm thinking that the Sig may be able to handle the lower velocity loads better than the other two. My next test will see. I'm going to load two more loads at 3.5 and 3.0 and log the results. I'm not going to change out any springs. All these guns are stock with the exception of changes to sights and an extended slide release.

Accuracy wasn't one of the goals of this test, but the Glock punched a 1" hole at 10 yards with the 4.0 load. I know, 10 yards isn't much distance, but I wanted the target where I could easily see that the bullet went through the target and didn't stick in the barrel.

 

[NikatKimber]

My Sig (9mm), would run on powder puff loads. My Glock not so much. You may very well find that doing what you describe will result in different loads for different guns.